[hughrr]

Completely agree with this. I find it really annoying when friends switch over and then their diet becomes McPlants, pizzas and ready meals with meat substitutes in them and any mention of something new ends up with a shrivelled up face. Philistines the lot of them. I mean they’re not terrible but there’s so much other good food out there that doesn’t look exactly like what you were eating before.

[alisonatwork]

I think becoming a more adventurous eater and becoming a more plant-based eater are orthogonal life choices.

Nowadays it's perfectly reasonable for people to eat more plant-based dishes without giving up too many of the flavors and textures and general structures of the meals that they were used to. That's a good thing, not a bad thing, assuming you agree with the philosophy that getting people to eat more plants is better for the environment.

Challenging people to eat dishes that are very different from what they grew up with - not just in the ingredients, but in the textures and flavors and preparations - that's a different discussion altogether. In my experience a lot of people are not very interested in trying dishes from unfamiliar cuisines, even if there is a chance they might like them. That's true whether we're talking plant-based or not.

I think for a lot of people it's easier to get them to eat more plant-based versions of the dishes they already like than to get them to experiment with dishes they're unfamiliar with.

[eatonphil]

What you're saying does make sense. But personally I cannot stand the taste of most substitutes I've used and I imagine many other cheese- and meat-heads would probably be as picky. My wife went vegan for a few years so I tried a number of cheeses and soy and egg things and I find them revolting, personally.

(That said, I'm becoming addicted to warm soy milk especially in the winter. It's just hard to find vendors that make homemade soy milk around here...)

BUT getting exposed to curries (I prefer Thai style rather than Indian) or paneer masala or the spicy paneer burgers in Indian McDonalds makes me feel I could easily give up meat if I was eating food this yummy.

And those spicy paneer burgers at Indian McDonalds, man they're good. I can't believe they haven't introduced them in the US. I think they'd be a massive hit. It tastes similar to spicy Chick-fil-a chicken but it's a type of cheese instead of meat.

[alisonatwork]

I agree that there are a lot of delicious curries, but personally I've really struggled to introduce spicier dishes to people with - for want of a better word - very bland palates. There is definitely a type of person for whom just salt and pepper is considered "spicy" and there is a huge resistance from them to try anything more "exotic" than that. This isn't just limited to Americans and Canadians either, you will find people like this in Latin America, Africa and Europe too. I'm not sure if it's genetic or cultural, but it is a strong preference. For these people, even a mediocre fake meat burger might hit the spot better than a curry.

I am fascinated by which foreign dishes end up becoming popular in different countries. For example, one of the most popular dishes in China is 番茄炒蛋 tomato and egg rice, which has the ingredients prepared in exactly the way most Europeans and Americans are familiar with, yet you rarely if ever find that same dish at Chinese restaurants in Europe or the US.

Incidentally, if you like paneer burgers, you might also enjoy haloumi burgers, which are a similar dish quite popular in Europe.

[eatonphil]

Yeah I do know what you mean. I still try to introduce people to the spicier things when I can.

But I don't think it even needs to be spicy to be good. Korean banchan dishes are mostly sesame oil, garlic and maybe vinegar or soy sauce and they make so many vegetables taste so amazing. We've been making a spinach banchan the last few weeks and it's just so tasty.

Also, I only recently realized that baked brocolli (to the point it's crispy) with a bit of oil and salt is the best vegetable I've ever tasted. It tastes like a healthier version of a good chip.

> Incidentally, if you like paneer burgers, you might also enjoy haloumi burgers, which are a similar dish quite popular in Europe.

Ooo I'm curious to try it. But while some people compare haloumi and paneer I think haloumi is waayy saltier and can be eaten easily on its own by frying it (honey on top optionally). Whereas paneer tastes like tofu on its own to me, completely tasteless. I imagine the haloumi burger would be very salty.

[neetha]

It's not just meat that is animal-derived. There's egg, milk, cheese, whipped cream, cream cheese. And without using substitutes/alternatives cooking a truly vegan meal becomes a challenge. Even for vegetarian dishes like cupcakes, veg pizza or veg pasta cannot be made without the animal-derived ingredients. Even the McDonalds spicy paneer burgers use paneer, mayo, butter.

I am from India. And most people here can't have meals without ghee, or tea/coffee without milk.

[eatonphil]

True. It isn't my goal at the moment to be vegan but just to eat _less_ meat and animal products.

[neetha]

Thank you! This was the whole concept behind EatKind. To get people to easily switch a plant-based diet without having to change what they eat on a daily basis. This is especially difficulty when usually it's one person in a household that decides to eat vegan and the rest of the family isn't ready to make a shift in their meals.

[jallen_dot_dev]

> I find it really annoying when friends switch over and then their diet becomes McPlants, pizzas and ready meals

And then they quit and warn others against trying it because it made them "feel like shit." Not realizing it wasn't the lack of meat and cheese, but rather eating a bunch of processed garbage.

[hughrr]

Yeah seen that too. Six years here and I’m walking and running 50k a week without a problem. More energy than I’ve ever had.

I actually just ate home made vegetable paella and chocolate cake for dinner.

[steveylang]

In the long run you are right, in the short run the various fake/substitute foods and ingredients are good intermediate steps to a vegetarian/vegan diet.

I think the bridge many aspiring vegans/vegetarians find hard to cross is finding really 'hearty' foods that don't have to taste like a steak but give you a similar experience (or feeling?) So the easiest first step is the substitute products.

[sparrc]

FWIW, some things that you think of as necessarily dairy-forward have just become that way through modern culture. Pizza, for example, used to commonly have no cheese, and still is somewhat common without cheese in Italy (Pizza Marinara from Naples, for example).

I'm no huge advocate of vegan "cheese" and "meatloaf", but vegan pizza can be perfectly normal and traditional.

[dfxm12]

Yeah, "tomato pie" is common in places with a lot of transplants from that part of Italy as well, especially places with old school Catholics who didn't eat any animal/dairy products during lent (Philly, NYC and the surrounding NJ suburbs to name a few). I grew up eating the stuff. I've since tried vegan pizza with fake cheese, from a place with great vegan sandwiches, and it's not worth it compared to a pizza with no cheese. When I make focaccia, I toss some pizza sauce on top before throwing it in the oven and it's amazing.