[toyg]

It's because it was not a thing in Italy, so accepting it was seen as the sign of being out of touch with "real pizza" traditions. Sadly, a natural reaction of disgusted rejection by Italians has been adopted by snobs all over the world.

Nowadays you'll find it even in Italy, because tourists demand it and they pay hard cash, so fuck it all anyway.

[leephillips]

> it was seen as the sign of being out of touch with "real pizza" traditions.

...by people who don’t know where what they think of as “Italian pizza” actually comes from. Look up “pizza effect.”

[toyg]

I would take what a "Austrian-born Hindu monk and professor of Anthropology at Syracuse University" says on the history of a traditional staple of my own country's diet with a massive grain of salt.

Pizza existed before Italian migration to North America was even a thing. It gained tomatoes when they became more readily available and better known in the early XIX century, and that's about it. The explosion in Italian migration happened later, by then most of the traditional pizzas had long been codified.

[rincewind]

I have tried to find the roots of this "pizza effect" myth, but all I could find is somebody making a point about mindfulness meditation and yoga, and I am not even sure how it holds up WRT yoga, because Indian yogis who do not-Western yoga are still a thing.

WRT pizza, it's clearly false. Pizza was a thing in Italy before World War II and it spread through Europe from Italy, not from the USA. You can trace the history of many pizzerias in Italy back far further than the "pizza effect" would have you believe, so you can easily de-bunk it by going to the web site of a pizza place in Napoli.

[mtts]

Agreed, it’s false. Pizza in Italy (and in the rest of Europe, for that matter) is very little like pizza in the US.

Amusingly, however, while it’s influence on the food itself is at the very least debatable, the influence of the US on how pizza is consumed is in fact very real: the fact that Italians nowadays drink beer with their pizza is something they learned from American GIs in WWII who brought the practice over from home.

Before that time, there was no overlap between Italians who drank beer (Northerners) and Italians who ate pizza (Southerners). Thanks the American soldiers Southerners learned to drink beer and Northerners learned about pizza.

[leephillips]

People who discuss the pizza effect are well aware that it started in Italy. The interesting “effect” part is that the version that is popular now in Italy was heavily influenced by the development of pizza in, largely, New York, by Italian immigrants. It was re-imported back into Italy. It’s a cautionary tale for people who fret about cultural appropriation and a reminder that the idea of the “original” or “authentic“ version of something is often more complicated than we imagine.

[krageon]

I have trouble believing this, given that I have tasted pizza from both places and it is not alike.

[gpderetta]

One of the most popular if not the most popular versions of pizzas in Italy is the pizza margherita (and in fact a lot of pizzas are just margheritas with additional toppings).

Pizza margherita existed in the I̶X̶X̶ XIX century already in its modern form.

[leephillips]

I’m not familiar with this century.

[Koshkin]

I wish we stopped using the Roman numerals. (On the other hand, they are good for coding interviews, and MMXXII looks pretty!)

[gpderetta]

fixed /facepalm

[rincewind]

Yeah, this is the version that is not true

[krageon]

> snobs

I don't like fruit as part of a main course (i.e. not a dessert) or appetizer. That doesn't make me a snob, it just means I don't think fruit belongs there and don't appreciate when it is.

[beepbooptheory]

No tomatoes? No salads with fruits? No Duck a l'Orange? No fried plantains?

[krageon]

Fried plantain is a dessert.

[JoeAltmaier]

Plums in chicken? Orange in sauces? Pear in a salad? Pineapple on ham? Lemon in anything?

[aidenn0]

Not the person who said it first, but I dislike all of those things except lemon[1]. In addition, my wife likes cranberry preserves with poultry and applesauce with pork, both of which I find distasteful.

However pineapple with anything savory is by far the worst for me. I prefer to not even sit next to my wife and kids when they are eating pizza with pineapple on it because the smell from it is enough to throw the taste off.

1: Okay, there are some sauces that technically have some orange or orange juice in them, but have so many other ingredients that it really just adds the tiniest hint of tangyness. but e.g. duck a l'orange is too much orange for me.

[krageon]

I don't like these things, except perhaps for lemon juice in moderation (and even then, I prefer it in desserts).

[nescioquid]

I suppose you won't eat a pizza with that red berry paste on it then?

[hbn]

This is the first I've heard as it being some kind of "it's not traditional" argument

Everyone I've ever talked to that has an issue with it just think it's gross. And they're usually people that are not very big risk-takers with their tastes, and order the exact same item at a restaurant every time they go. And only want either cheese pizza or pepperoni.

[prussian]

>It's because it was not a thing in Italy

I'm pretty sure even Tomatoes weren't. I hope this isn't the reason for the disdain.

[_jal]

I'm fine with disdain. If pizza were French, there'd be legislation about it.

[ycombinete]

“Of course it’s not real pizza, that’d have to be imported from the Pizza region in Italy”

[Zababa]

I fail to see the problem with this. Especially when it's products made from animals that eat the grass around that place. Or anything soil-dependant really. Wine is very different depending on where it comes from.

[Bayart]

That sentence works if you replace pizza with parmesan, or any of the Italian protected origin foods.

[ska]

It's easy to poke fun, but DOP isn't just about region and it does matter, at least for many things.

I don't know that "you can't call it X" is the right approach, but there should be some really clear to consumers way of saying "X was made to a particular standard" vs "all bets are off with Y" - then let them decide.

[ycombinete]

Well in South Africa we have a sausage called boerewors. My understanding is that you can only label it boerewors if it has certain specific percentages of certain specific fillings. Anyone can make boerewors and call it boerewors, as long as they stick to those ingredients and percentages.

Things that fall out of those ranges are simply called wors. Similar to the difference between a pork sausage and a pork banger.

[Bayart]

I'm not the one poking fun, my comment was straightforward.

I'm French, we invented this legal device, I know how it works and why it exists (and I think it's got every right to).

[ravi-delia]

I feel like it's probably because a typical American pizza has savory toppings, and pineapple is unusual in that respect. At least, that's why people around me complain about it. The Italian pizza ship sailed a looong time ago.

[wiredfool]

There are lots of things which are non traditional but good on pizza.

Fish and chips for one. Curry wurst. Apple, persimmon, pine nut and blue cheese. Halloumi, pea, and mint. Mushroom, goat cheese and chipotle. Cranberry and white pudding. (Or cranberry and goat cheese) Christmas dinner. (Turkey, stuffing, ham, cranberry). Pulled pork. Roast pineapple and mint. Bacon and egg. Berry and cream cheese. Salmon and cream cheese and wasabi.

I have been known to make specific dinners in order to have the leftovers to put on pizza.

[Shared404]

Hard agree.

My first job was a pizza place where we had "Pizza of the Month" deals which were unusual pizza's. Street taco pizza? Amazing. Thanksgiving pizza? Amazing. Spicy honey + fresh mozzarella? Amazing. Baked potato pizza? Amazing.

Just gotta remember to not use tomato sauce for some of those.

[mauvehaus]

If you find yourself near Slade, KY, you might find Miguel's worth a visit[0]. Their list of toppings and sauces is extensive, in part reflecting that it's anything in the kitchen that might reasonably be a pizza topping, salad component, or breakfast burrito filling. Hell, they'll put rotini on your pizza if you want, since they have it on hand for people who prefer pasta to pizza as their dinner substrate.

I suspect you could experiment to your hearts content for a long while there.

[0] It's unlikely that you'll "find" yourself in Slade without already knowing about Miguel's.

[wiredfool]

Sounds like it.

There was a food truck at Cornell when I was there, Hot Truck, an institution on West Campus for late night food. They had a bunch of French bread pizzas, referred to in initial code. PMP (poor mans pizza), WGC(white garlic and cheese) and the always interesting WTF (chefs choice).

I feel that if it plausibly goes with bread and cheese, or if it’s street food, then it will probably work on a pizza.

[wiredfool]

Yeah, no tomato for most of mine. Though fresh sliced tomatoes are a common topping.

They honey pizza reminds me of a pizza I got from a vending machine in France a couple years back, I think honey and chevre. There was this vending machine outside a pizza joint that would cook a whole pizza for you in about 5 minutes, presumably from cold preprepared pizzas.

[toyg]

Is this satire? I hope it's satire.

[wiredfool]

Nope. All real, most from the last couple of months. Quite a few are In the running for the best pizza of the night on any given night.

[jjice]

Some people don't like sweets with their acids/savory foods. Claiming it's an argument over traditional pizza is a bit overkill.

[ska]

How often are the same people as vociferous about disliking pork chops & apple sauce, chinese bbq, etc. ?

It's seems a pretty silly thing to get worked up about. There are vastly more egregious slights to the good name of pizza in nearly every american frozen food aisle, after all.

[ycombinete]

Also some of us just find the taste of things like pineapple on pizza and burgers, or maple syrup with bacon etc. disgusting

[marcosdumay]

Nah, It can not be because a lot of people just dislike pineapple mixed with their food. No way, it can't be.