[ramesh31]

>since mozilla fired the servo team there is no certain future for it anymore.

When did that happen? It seems the managerial class has completed their takeover of Mozilla in the last few years. A real shame, since it basically cedes the entire web to Google.

[potiuper]

2020,8,11 https://www.zdnet.com/article/mozilla-lays-off-250-employees...

[YPPH]

>it basically cedes the entire web to Google

Refocusing on making Mozilla a viable entity without the need for cash splashes from Google is doing precisely the opposite. By diluting Google's financial control it ensures decision-making is both actually and ostensibly impartial.

Gecko is still a perfectly functioning browser engine. It's far easier to keep Gecko up to date with modern web standards than reinventing the wheel.

As nice as it would be to have a free and open source browser engine written in a memory safe language, I can't see there being a lot of money in it for Mozilla.

[Dylan16807]

In 2013 Mozilla spent $197M on software development and $30M on general/administrative.

In 2020 it was $242M and $137M.

The future-focused servo team was not the place to cut a couple million.

[elb2020]

It seems to me, that once a company reaches a tipping point of more than 50% non-engineers in upper management, it's the demise of the company as an engineering company, and it will slowly drift in the direction of being a technology holding company only.

[lifthrasiir]

I wouldn't be this cynical if everyone said the same thing to the Firefox OS back then. It turned out that Firefox OS did have much potential to countries with less mobile penetration, as observed from KaiOS's success in India.

Was the Firefox OS less future-focused than Servo? I don't think so, and given that Servo actually did survive long enough to give back to the mainline Gecko (in the form of WebRender and so on). It might or might not make actual sense to conclude that as the ROI shrinks, but it is always easier to claim the decision was wrong after that decision.

[toyg]

Well, many claimed that back when decisions were being taken. They could have scrapped FFOS much sooner than they did.

> Firefox OS did have much potential to countries with less mobile penetration, as observed from KaiOS's success in India.

Such "success" is inevitably fleeting. Eventually a "developing" market develops to demand more established and desirable products. Nokia had those markets under lock and key for a long time, back when EU/US had already moved on to iPhone-like products; but then consumers inevitably gravitated towards the fashionable.

[acdha]

> Nokia had those markets under lock and key for a long time, back when EU/US had already moved on to iPhone-like products; but then consumers inevitably gravitated towards the fashionable.

“fashionable” is the wrong word: it should be “functional”. Those old Nokia phones were very good at being phones but that's it — maybe a minimal messaging app, but anyone who used one knows just how limited those old mobile OSes were.

I think FirefoxOS was an interesting idea but there are really important thresholds you need to be able to hit and that was the critical error they made. There was no plausible way to grow the low-end feature phone market into a large enough business to get there when competing with cheap knock-off Android devices. If they'd started years earlier or gotten a major vendor on-board, maybe, but at their funding levels there was no way to make the numbers work and it was pretty clear at the time that this was a low-probability gamble.

[thematrixturtle]

Not if the platform can leverage its position to move upmarket, as Japanese, Korean and now Chinese manufacturers have.

[dotancohen]

  > In 2013 Mozilla spent $197M on software development and $30M on general/administrative.
  > In 2020 it was $242M and $137M.
  > The future-focused servo team was not the place to cut a couple million. 

Wasn't it just after 2013 when the replacement politically-correct CEO got quadruple the pay of the not-politically-correct engineer CEO?

[smcl]

That's a bit of an oversimplification, it's not like they had a choice between adequately funding R&D projects or Doing Political Correctness and chose the latter. Besides, remember that Eich was appointed in 2014 and had only a short stint at CEO, so I don't think you can attribute the 2013 figures to him

I think all of us on HN are a bit saddened about Mozilla cutting back on the Rust and Servo teams, but political-correctness isn't the reason behind that. Let's not turn this into one of those discussions.

[leeroyjenkins11]

They did give like a 10k grant for people to remove master/slave terminology from docs, so who knows what other PC work they were funding.

[ramesh31]

>They did give like a 10k grant for people to remove master/slave terminology from docs, so who knows what other PC work they were funding.

As a black person in tech, I can't tell you how much that whole debacle drives me insane. I never once in my life ever made the association between "master branch" and "slave master". But now every single time I pull a repo with a "main" branch instead of "master", I have to think about it and play along to assuage someone's white guilt. I absolutely refuse to ever make the switch.

[acdha]

This is a silly conspiracy theory if you think about it even a little bit. The grant you're referring to was $15K grant to Buildbot, which Mozilla has used heavily for years, and that was both to update terminology and “also to make improvements so Buildbot works better in the Amazon EC2 cloud” — guess which one is more work? — and $15K is a big amount to an open source maintainer but tiny when you're talking about budgets measured in hundreds of millions of dollars. You don't solve major budgetary issues by going after tiny fractions of one percent when there are individual people making orders of magnitude more money.

Mozilla is also one of the most open companies in our field — given how often we read about far less significant events there, it seems incredibly unlikely that there's some sort of substantial but well-concealed dark funding of “PC work” which has remained secret even after, say, lots of people being laid off or leaving especially when such work would by necessity have visible impacts.

[iamdanieljohns]

where can I find this statistics?

[Dylan16807]

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/who-we-are/public-records/

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2020/

All the "audited financial statements".

It should be the second full-page chart.

[zucker42]

It happened when Mozilla laid off 25% of their staff. Servo was probably part of that because it was more of a research project than part of the core business.

[jppope]

Isn't their core business just helping google avoid anti-trust issues by being the "other" browser?

[Ygg2]

Well. Can't step on Google's embedability then.

[NetOpWibby]

OOF

[Melatonic]

I really hope that does not end up being the case because Firefox is better than ever in my opinion