[robbiep]

I’m sorry to hear about your issues. With respect, I’ll take a stand against your claim of there being a tsunami of patients with vaccine injuries innundating rheumatologists - I am in the field and continue to ask colleagues if they are seeing anything of the sort and no-one has seen anything like this.

However, if it is happening, we will surely see it in the data. Australia is almost fully vaccinated (but also more recently vaccinated than say the US) so maybe what you’re saying is still coming, but I think it is important to remain skeptical of large numbers of vaccine injured until there is reasonably robust data

[throwaway2474]

Australian with pericarditis here. Both my cardiologist and GP told me they’ve seen a flood of patients (mostly 30-something men) and both told me separately that the published numbers are obviously wrong.

What I think is occurring, at least in the case of myo/pericarditis, is that nobody reports cases unless the outcome is really bad. GPs do not habitually report to the TGA, and most specialists don’t either. So the official numbers are really only those who went to hospital and it was bad enough that someone bothered to fill out the TGA form.

[robbiep]

The TGA reporting is incredibly easy so that is disappointing. Speaking to my sister (cardiologist) and colleagues in GPland and physicians training I have not heard this - although I am easily able to accept that peri/myocarditis in its mild to moderate forms is more prevalent than the reported instances. I don’t wish to minimise your own experience but think the real crux will be if broader, more significantly lifelong autoimmune conditions develop.

[giantg2]

Here in the US, the VEARS system is pretty easy to file a report. It suffers from severe under reporting.

[hybridtupel]

At least you got a diagnosis. I know someone having the symptoms of a pericarditis for several weeks now but the doctors don't acknowledge them, telling they were merely pycholocial. If nobody reports these issues then they won't be widely known and they won't be treated.

[giantg2]

Same here in the US with VAERS.

[alexmcc81]

>I’ll take a stand against your claim of there being a tsunami of patients with vaccine injuries in i dating rhumatologies

I'm not making that claim. I'm only providing an anecdote about my local health service and that is what I have been told.

> However, if it is happening, we will surely see it in the data.

I guess it will take time since these conditions can take time to manifest or be diagnosed. I really hope it proves to be a rare occurrence.

[robbiep]

Well I’m taking a stand against the anecdote then

[alexmcc81]

> Well I’m taking a stand against the anecdote then

I am not generalising, just providing a single data point about my local health service which is very relevant to my treatment. Even if it an outlier or does not match your colleagues experiences it does not make it less true for me.

I recommend reading the top comment by walterbell. Not everything is an attack on medicine/science. While it's important to keep discussions honest/scientifically accurate, it's also important to show some empathy and realise not everything is a debate or attack.

[robbiep]

If you read my comment you will see that it is not, in fact an attack on you and if I had not made the unfortunate use of the word ‘claim’ and instead said ‘I’d like to counter your anecdote with one of my own …… and lets wait until there’s more data’ then we wouldn’t be having this thread. As it stands I apologise and also retract my snappy comment that you are replying to above.

The problem with anecdote, whichever way you cut it, particularly in a charged debate like this, is that they get picked up and snowball just like the election being stolen. People believe them, even if there is no data. Now we can’t wait until the data is in in every circumstance particularly in a public health crisis. So it’s appropriate to try and inform, listen to the stories, and do the studies, and also recognise that when you try and give some new medication to billions of people there’s bound to be some blowback. But how much? To what degree? And are we communicating the issues in a truthful, timely and non-alarmist manner?

[alexmcc81]

I agree and I really hope that in the long term the data proves any side effects are extremely rare and my experience is an outlier.

The way the public conversation has unfolded in this crisis has been extremely disappointing to say the least and I understand your position. All the misinformation, conspiracy theories and politicising has made any real conversation impossible. Anything can and will be used to undermine confidence in vaccines. Unfortunately that means genuine issues get bundled in with the untrue in most peoples minds in my experience at least. I really don't envy anyone in the medical field at the moment when facts are twisted/discarded and people are dying as a result.

[robbiep]

I couldn’t agree more

[raxxorrax]

> The problem with anecdote, whichever way you cut it, particularly in a charged debate like this, is that they get picked up and snowball just like the election being stolen

Rationalize all you want, you just stated that you don't like this information. Sometimes words reveal ourselves.

[ekianjo]

> we will surely see it in the data

Thats only assuming you have proper data collection and reporting in place. The current systems to do so are laughable.