[dukeofdoom]

No conspiracy, but I think we are seeing the results when the professional class gets to rule. And I think its turning out bad.

Imagine if you were forced to follow the advice of you Doctor, Lawyer, and your Teacher every hour of the day. They all might mean well for you. But its turning out that its gets pretty bureaucratic and despotic very fast.

But on the other hand, if a super villain wanted to rid the world of people, an anti vaccine might be one way to do it.

[pfisherman]

I dunno. If I wanted to kill a bunch of people would it be easier to…

1. Wait for a pandemic, simultaneously develop multiple bogus vaccines at competing pharmaceutical companies, fake clinical trials at multiple in multiple countries, pass fake data through multiple regulatory agencies, and keep all of it secret.

2. Run some Facebook ads telling people not to protect themselves during a deadly pandemic?

[dukeofdoom]

In Ontario, the vaccinated are getting infected at a higher rate than unvaccinated. Which seems a very strange effect for a vaccine to have.

On the conspiracy side, you can't really rule out a coordinated effort at this point. This video goes into how spreading confusion and fear, to create a state of public mass psychosis is a tactic employed by authoritarians in the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09maaUaRT4M

[rovolo]

I'm using the data at https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data . It shows the inversion you've mentioned.

- Cases: vaccinated = 100/100k, unvaccinated = 80/100k

Vaccinations reduce the severity of the disease. If you get exposed, vaccination will prompt your body to deal with the infection more quickly when there's less of the virus. This can, but doesn't necessarily, clear the infection before it's detected. You can see the protective effect in Ontario by looking at different severities.

- Population 12+: vaccinated = 88%, unvaccinated = 9%

- Hospital non-ICU: vaccinated = 65%, unvaccinated = 25%

- Hospital ICU: vaccinated = 40%, unvaccinated = 50%

- Deaths aren't reported by vaccination status on this page

[dukeofdoom]

Yes, but this is snapshot at this current time, in a changing situation. The hospitalization rate for the vaccinated has gone up by a lot in the last month. Long term we don't really know how things will go, and if there will be more vaccinated people in hospital in ICU than unvaccinated.

One plausible explanation I heard is that the immune system does not recognize the virus, but rather the cells infected by the virus. The immune system uses T-cells to destroy those infected cells. The drop in effectiveness of each successive vaccine, suggests a diminishing ability for the immune system to recognize the infected cells. And its not really clear if repeated boosting will solve this problem. I think of it as a ai that's been over optimized to recognize only the training data.

Don't really have a background to evaluate if this is a valid explanation of why we are seeing this inversion.