[xu3u32]

I am someone who usually gets their beef from costco, small middle eastern markets and sometimes when its on sale at the neighborhood grocery store (Publix). Would you mind sharing in what ways what I'm consuming is trash compared to what comes from small farms?

[JoeAltmaier]

I buy grass-fed beef from my neighbor. There's no difference as far as I can see. I like to support my neighbor, but there's no magic, no difference cooking, no startling color-change tricks as reported elsewhere in this thread.

[CreepGin]

We have opposite experiences with pork and poultry. The meat we get from local homesteads are noticeably way better than store bought. Maybe beef is a different story. I don't know...

During 2020 summer, we raised 4 peking ducks in our backyard. We gifted some of the processed meat to extended family members. And to this day, they still can't stop talking about how good the meat were.

[adrr]

Poultry that is free range is more stringy and chewy. It also much leaner and smaller. I lived off free range chicken when i worked summers on my grandfather's farm in Hawaii. It is all personal preference. If you order chicken pho at a Vietnamese restaurant it will most likely be free range chicken or what they call "Walking chicken". It is completely different than a Tyson Chicken from Costco with oversized breast meat.

[cheese_goddess]

Really free-range poultry (backyard chicken, rather than chicken grown in a factory with a tiny yard just enough to satisfy free range regulations) is like you say, tough, stringy, full of muscle, with normal-sized breasts and its meat is dark. It's no good for roasting because you really have to boil it for a couple of hours at least in order to get it to the point it's edible. I made the mistake once to only cook a hen for half an hour, like I'd do for supermarket chicken and I spent the night chewing until my jaws ached (I didn't want to throw it out. Poor bird died so I could eat it; so I ate it).

That said, real-free-range chicken makes the most unbelievably godly soup. They have this amazing yellow fat and their skin is thick with it, so they make a really thick broth. Just add a few vegetables, a bit of celery, some carrots, potatoes, and you don't even need rice or anything else to thicken it. I suspect it's that kind of chicken that people mean when they say that chicken soup is good for you when you're sick. It's the kind of soup that could raise the dead.

Edit - I forgot about the bones. Real free range chicken bones are hard. You can't just snap them between your fingers. Well I can't anyway. They're like real bones. Amaze!

[tsimionescu]

Chicken meat and hen meat are different things. Big stores very rarely sell hen (or rooster) meat, normally only the meat of young, immature chicks is consumed, free-range or not.

This is like the difference between veal and beef. The younger animal has softer meat and a different kind of fat.

[cheese_goddess]

Yes, that's right. But there's still a world of difference between a young chicken raised in a cage and the ones in our back yard.

Honestly? I don't exactly understand why but the intuitive explanation is that animals that are allowed to roam and browse free are ... more healthy?

[b112]

I think you are all missing something, at least if discussing the US market.

Growth hormomes.

As an example, I've seen some US chickens as large as Canadian turkeys...

So free range, may not be getting growth hormones in the feed...

[artificialLimbs]

You have to put it in the freezer before it gets stringy and chewy. You're eating old chickens if it's stringy and chewy.

[c_o_n_v_e_x]

Here in Singapore and Malaysia, you can get "kampong chicken" (village chicken)... basically the chicken you see running around the village. They're great for soups and have a lot more flavor imo.

[bobthepanda]

Chicken doesn't have to be free-range to be better than what Tyson et al. are producing.

White striping is a lot more prominent in factory farmed chicken.

[jghn]

I get most of my meat from a local farm share. I've noticed that the largest difference vs grocery store meat by far is the fat in the pork we get. Poultry in general would be next, followed by the actual pork meat, and then beef. But yes, it's nice to get poultry that tastes like ... something.

The largest difference at first with beef was that it was grass fed and I was not used to that. But now I tend to buy grass fed beef when I do get it from the supermarket and thus don't notice a big difference vs my farm meat.

[ineedasername]

Is it possible that freshness and lack of freezing are the cause of any difference. (Also I assume local farms do not artificially plump chicken with fluids)

[CreepGin]

The ducks we raised were even better tasting than from other local homesteads. I think the trick was in the amount of organic peas and red wrigglers we fed them.

[abduhl]

This sounds like how I always “reminisce” with old associates about how good they were when they or we did X. Except you’re even more related to these people and so the vested interest in making you feel like they think you’re a great dude is even more entrained.

[shawn-butler]

Arguable. Non-feedlot raised animals do evidence some seasonality in the texture and flavor of the meat.

The nutritional value of the meat produced / consumed may be chemically similar although there is some research to support the higher human health benefits (CLAs, Omega 3s,Omega 9s, etc.) of grass-fed beef, but it is the stewardship used to raise those animals has a vastly different impact on the environment. Can't really speak to your neighbor in particular but you could ask him/her about rotational grazing and their antibiotic / animal healh protocols.

Just because you can't see the tail-pipe emissions coming from your car doesn't mean they aren't real and impacting your health and the viability of future generations.

Really this is a failure of the educational system in the US. If people knew the facts, they would be supporting and buying from local producer-owned cooperatives. One good example that I know of in the Upper Midwest market is https://www.wisconsingrassfed.coop/

[sokoloff]

> Really this is a failure of the educational system in the US. If people knew the facts, they would be supporting and buying from local producer-owned cooperatives.

Even people who know the difference might prefer to buy cheap factory farmed meat, might not have freezer space to hold 30 pounds of meat until they can use it, or $250 to tie up in what amounts to personal beef futures.

The coop meat you linked is pretty competitively priced and I’m sure it’s good. Even with that, it’s more expensive and for some people, price really matters.

[b112]

If they have the free cash. For some, every penny saved is vital. I think we often don't get this here.

[brailsafe]

> Really this is a failure of the educational system in the US. If people knew the facts, they would be supporting and buying from local producer-owned cooperatives.

This is an idealistic liberal fantasy that implies rather condescendingly that anyone who does otherwise is uneducated. I support my local grocery store in whatever way I can, but I buy what I can afford, try not to support slave labour if I know about it, but otherwise it's far more important to me that I cover my bases for energy, nutrition, and desire. Tailpipe emissions can be measured, and people avoid them all the time largely by not having cars or living near congestion, if they can afford to, because it makes the air gross. If the result of paying more for steak means mostly that it tastes a bit better and you feel morally superior, then an educated person of moderate means would choose the more reasoned choice compared to what it cost them. I don't think it's like the difference between literally inhaling from an exhaust pipe or breathing mountain air. I think it's more like pretentious juices that I see at my local mart. One is already expensive at $8 and is basically sugar, and the one labeled organic small-batch hand-squeezzed is $18 for the same size, and is basically sugar. Ya it might taste better, idk, but I sure as hell am not paying $18 for a jar of juice.

[LargoLasskhyfv]

https://www.localharvest.org/

[gutitout]

Maybe it’s not grass-fed.

Kidding. Really though if it was you could taste it. In some cases I prefer grain fed cows cause they just taste better. However the fat ratio of healthy to unhealthy fat, omega 3 to omega 6, is a major reason to go grass-fed.

[b112]

May depend on the grass! The flavour comes from variety of grasses, which is why wild meat tastes so different. I've has farm raised deer/venison, and wild was much better ..

So maybe the grass was just ...

[JoeAltmaier]

Let me look out the window .... yup! There they are, eating grass.

[hn_throwaway_99]

Don't know about grass-fed beef, but the taste of grass-fed milk compared to regular is night-and-day to me. I don't often splurge on organic but for milk I do solely for the taste.

[JoeAltmaier]

I know all about that! Every spring when the dairy cattle in the midwest are turned out into the green fields, the milk tastes of onions. Because wild onions is one of the first things to sprout in the spring!

[shaklee3]

organic milk mostly tastes different because it's pasteurized at a higher temperature. this makes it last longer and gives it a more of a cooked taste. it's personal preference if it tastes better.

[hn_throwaway_99]

No, I'm not just talking about organic milk. I think there is a huge taste difference even between grass-fed organic milk and "normal" organic milk. (Note I've never seen non-organic grass-fed milk). Normal organic milk doesn't actually taste all that different compared to conventional milk to me.

For me the biggest taste difference is from the grass, not the organic.

[hindsightbias]

A decade back, you couldn’t get grass-fed in any US metro, save the BA. And that was imported from Paraguay or Argentina.

Now it’s probably corn finished and pesticidy, but it does taste more like I remember as a kid.

[ratsmack]

That may be because many "grass-fed" farmers do a 120 day corn finish which adds weight quickly. This makes the beef more like what is produces commercially.

[poulsbohemian]

The rancher I buy beef from is a multi-generation family friend. I can tell the years he's finished on grain vs. the years he hasn't. Same Angus beef on the same grass fields, drinking the same mountain spring water, same mobile kill operation. But, some years it's obvious in the taste and texture he has mixed in corn / grains into the diet.

To the other poster asking about mobile kill operations - it's less stress on the animals, and that ultimately does yield a better product. So whether you view it through the lens of tasty meat or animal welfare, in both cases it's a win.

[wyager]

We raised some lambs a couple years ago. The meat was noticeably much tastier than store-bought lamb. Don't know if this was a function of diet or freshness or what, but it was quite compelling.

[throwawayboise]

Grass-fed beef will have a "gamier" taste than supermarket beef, especially if it is not "finished" by corn-feeding before slaughter. It's not bad, it's just different. If you are used to the taste of steak from the supermarket beef, which is mostly corn-fed, grass-fed "free-range" beef will taste different.

[xd]

I took on some caged hens (about 6months back now) that were off for slaughter to be turned into dog food. Straight away they took to the patch of land in my garden I gave them and laid eggs .. the eggs they lay are on another level to anything store bought. I can put a pan of water on boil over a stove; crack an egg into it and have a perfect poached egg 2-3mins later. They are creamy and rich as if they have life compared to what now tastes almost rancid in store eggs.

Waking up at sun rise every day to let them out is a pain but more than worth it. That said I wouldn't recommend keeping hens unless you've had exposure to them on some level other than visiting a farm.

[zwieback]

I added a solenoid-operated latch to my chicken coop that opened when the sun came up. I didn't like getting up at 4:30 in the summer. At night I still manually closed it since I had to make sure I didn't lock a skunk or possum in with the chickens.

[wiredfool]

Funny, I had it auto open at 8am and close at civil twilight automatically, and it was the auto closing that was the much bigger deal for me.

[inetknght]

> I added a solenoid-operated latch to my chicken coop that opened when the sun came up.

That's pretty cool. Is it battery operated? Do you have your chicken coup next to your home or did you run power to the hen house?

[zwieback]

The coop was maybe 60 ft away so I opted for a battery that I'd have to recharge every few weeks. I don't have chickens right now but if I ever get more I'll use a small solar charger and maybe add a few more bells and whistles. I lost a lot of chickens to raccoons and hawks so maybe next time I'd actually do a fully enclosed chicken run.

[conradev]

This. It is all in the yolks. Farm fresh eggs from happy chickens can be a nice deep yellow/orange, whereas factory eggs are usually pale yellow.

Of all of the farm products discussed in the thread, eggs show the biggest difference in my opinion

[gniv]

Are you sure this is still true? I thought nowadays it's mostly what supplements they put in the feed. These supplements are sold exactly with this kind of promise.

[philipkglass]

You appear to be correct.

"Handbook on Natural Pigments in Food and Beverages"

Chapter 14 - Feed Additives for Influencing Chicken Meat and Egg Yolk Color

Pigmentation of egg yolks and poultry tissues (mainly skin and fat) directly reflects the contents of carotenoids in the feed of birds. In most countries of the world, consumers prefer pigmented egg yolks, whereas pigmented poultry tissues are less desired. Especially in the southern part of Europe, eggs with a golden-orange tone of yolks are preferred. This is achieved by supplementing feeds of birds with both yellow and red carotenoids. For this purpose, nine carotenoids are approved as feed additives in the European Union, five natural and four artificial products, six with a yellow color and three with a red color. This chapter describes the ways of pigmenting egg yolks and poultry tissues, how to measure the achieved color, the factors affecting the color of the product, the deposition rates of carotenoids, and the contribution of carotenoids in egg yolks to humane intake.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B978008100...

Here's one of these products from BASF:

https://nutrition.basf.com/global/en/animal-nutrition/produc...

Poultry cannot produce carotenoids on their own, which is why the color of egg yolks depends on the carotenoids combination in their diets. However, it is not only the quantity of pigments that matters but also their bioavailability and color intensity. With Lucantin® Yellow (C-30 ester) any egg yolk color between light pastel yellow and reddish is possible.

[novok]

There is one brand of eggs, happy egg co heritage breed that has some of the deepest color yolks I've seen with a different smell and taste. Significantly tastier. I've tried a lot of brands and price categories and haven't found ones like those.

https://happyegg.com/heritage-breed/

[shaklee3]

this is not true: https://www.seriouseats.com/what-are-the-best-eggs

[inetknght]

> That said I wouldn't recommend keeping hens unless you've had exposure to them on some level other than visiting a farm.

I recently bought a few acres in SE Texas and several people have recommend I raise chickens both for the eggs and also to help with some of the insects around here.

Why don't you recommend it?

[xd]

I didn't word that well, what I meant to say was get some exposure to chickens and a keeper who will give you the insights you need to understand what's required for happy chickens - even if that is a bunch of Youtube videos.

In Britain a lot of people rush out to get rescue hens and stick them in a rabbit run on their patio which is what I try to avoid encouraging.. being turned into dog food is a better outcome than the quality of life some chickens get.

[tbyehl]

> Why don't you recommend it?

Not GP. Can't imagine why they wouldn't. Once you're past the construction phase -- coop, containment, predator defense -- they're fairly low effort. Provide food and water, clean the coop regularly, and pay enough attention to them to quickly notice if your birds start getting sick.

Source: Started with 6 chicks and 8 rescue hens a couple years ago, presently around 40.

[omeze]

Not GP but how'd you find the land? I'm from Texas (grew up but haven't lived as an adult) and was wondering how to find 1-2 acres

[inetknght]

I went through a half dozen real estate agents. After several months and false starts, I found a real estate agent who was close to retiring, loved driving far, and liked looking at rural properties. During the week she'd send property listings to me and I'd yay/nay them. Then on the weekend we'd drive around and see three or four of them -- literally all-day affairs on Saturdays and half-days on Sundays. That went on for several months.

I moved from Houston to my new 5 acres in August after watching the housing market for a year and actively searching for a home for about 6 months.

Honestly the real selling point is that this home has AT&T gigabit fiber :)

[jdhn]

AT&T fiber in a rural area? What's the closest major city?

[lotsofpulp]

I find fiber to be most rare in recently developed suburbs (1980s to 2000s) with buried utilities. It is too costly to dig and lay new fiber to the home underground.

Stringing it along existing poles is cheap, and installing it in new underground utilities is cheap.

[inetknght]

I'm 15 minutes from Cleveland.

[AndrewUnmuted]

It's true; it is. This year I bought half of a red angus cow straight from the farm. It turns red when it gets cooked. It's a sight to behold. The stuff you buy at the costco has been frozen and unfrozen at least twice before you buy it. That's already a meaningful difference. They clearly treat it with some sort of coloring agent.

In the 30 years I have cooked meat, nothing can prepare you for real beef that comes straight from the source. If it's USDA approved it ain't right.

[voakbasda]

You are absolutely correct.

It all starts with better nutrition. CAFO cows that end up at the supermarket are fed low-quality grains and feedstocks, rather than grass that they were evolved to eat. The difference between grain and grass fed beef is amazing.

USDA processing is a complete farce. I can only sell locally, because I am not willing to send my animals to such facilities. Instead, I can only sell here in my home state, because that's the only way I can say that my animals were born, raised, and died humanely on my farm. The butcher will drop them where they stand, eating a final meal in the conditions that they were raised.

If I want to go with USDA in order to sell my products out of state, by the cut, or to resellers (e.g. restaurants), then I must load my animals onto a trailer, haul them almost two hours away, and allow them to suffer the trauma of that experience before finally being slaughtered in inhumane conditions. I can tell you right away: that experience severely damages the quality of the meat.

Big ranches can afford their own USDA facilities, but small farms must share the slowly dwindling number of processors that still serve the public. There are less than two dozen in my entire state, so you currently need to book them further out than the entire lifespan of the animals that you plan to raise. Right now, my processor has completely booked 2022; a new farmer cannot get any animals processed there until 2023!

Seriously, fuck the USDA.

[bee_rider]

Any thoughts on Mobile Slaughter Units?

Your focus on being less cruel to your cows is pretty admirable, but I don't really see how average consumers could evaluate whether their local farm is:

* Putting in the sort of extra effort that you are

* Following safety protocols more generally

I dunno. I'm not super attached to meat, so I'd probably quit eating it before putting in the effort to eat it ethically. Actually when I put it that way, I should probably quit it...

[voakbasda]

The USDA allows Mobile Slaughter Units. My state does not have one, because it's too expensive to bootstrap. We're talking millions of dollars of capital expenditures to get one running, because you still need a non-mobile facility in which to finish processing and pack the meat.

None of the existing processors are willing to invest in such a venture, when their existing facilities are increasingly being regulated out of existence. No one is building new USDA facilities to serve small farmers.

[vwcx]

One counterexample to this might be the field harvesting of bison. Starting to see more 'artisanal' buffalo ranching that stress the positive ethics and efficiency of slaughtering in the field as needed. Of course, they still do need a partnership with a local processor to make field harvesting work.

[AndrewUnmuted]

The way to do it is to meet the farmer.

We had a nice hour long walk & talk with the farmer we went with here in middle TN. He gave us $50 worth of free samples at the end and checked in with us a few times to see if we were able to get a good meal out of the sample meat.

We saw his process, we met the cows and saw first-hand how he cared for them. We also saw that he cared - he cared a lot.

When you think about it, this is the stuff you're going to feed your family. We put in a lot of effort when buying a car but not when buying our food. It's amazing what a little effort and thought can get you out here though, in "the sticks."

[hcurtiss]

I'm only one guy, but having raised and butchered several of both, I vastly prefer grain-finished steers. The trend toward lean grass-fed beef mystifies me. The fat and marbling with grain-finished animals is much higher, particularly if modestly confined, and that has at least historically earned a better grade. It's certainly easier to cook and preferred in my household.

[graaben]

How did you go about finding a farm to buy from? I'm very interested in doing this.

[freedomben]

I'm in Eastern Idaho, and you can find small ranchers to buy meat from pretty easily on local Facebook pages. I even met one at the park and just started up a conversation. In the end it wasn't cheaper (It was about the same price as Costco) and I had to buy at least a half cow, but the quality was so good I can't even believe it sometimes.

[mynameisash]

I haven't done this yet, but The Omnivore's Dilemma mentions EatWild.com as a resource for finding "beyond organic" food. That might be a good place to start.

[matchbok]

In absolutely no way does any beef sold in stores contain artificial color.

[e44858]

I frequently see "nitrites" in the ingredients list, whose main purpose is to color the meat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_nitrite#Color_and_taste

[xyzzyz]

They don’t add nitrites to raw meat, only to processed one. Nitrites is why your ham is pink instead of gray. But, more importantly than color, nitrites are added as a preservative, to avoid botulism.

[kbart]

Wasn't the claim that nitrites help against botulism denied few years ago? According to Guardian: "A bombshell internal report written for the British meat industry reveals nitrites do not protect against botulism"[0]

0. https://www.theguardian.com/food/2019/mar/23/nitrites-ham-ba...

[ironchef]

Modified air packaging with carbon monoxide is _very_ common in the US. So the “artificial color” isn’t some dye or something… it’s how the myoglobin reacts to the MAP.

[mastazi]

I grew up on a farm in Italy and for years I could not eat supermarket meat as I found it absolutely awful, so it might be a habit that forms over time. Note that this was not about beef because we didn't have cattle (beef is the only meat we had to buy from outside), anyway in my experience grass-fed high quality beef tastes definitely nothing like supermarket meat... it's not just the taste but the tenderness/consistency/texture.

[belorn]

To take ground beef as an example, when I put typical store bought beef in the pan there will be a lot of liquid forming and boiling. Ground beef from small farms tend to need a bit more butter as it has much less water content in it. It not uncommon to hear cooks that always ground their own beef in order to control water and fat content.