[r3n]

Dose anyone has good advices to change this kind of mindset ?

It is hard for me to not be judgmental about stuff I disagree, and I can tell this attitude is causing more trouble than I would like in many different area of my life.

[wccrawford]

It's really hard, and the author falls into their own trap. They're being "judgmental" about the people who are being judgmental. And here I am doing it, too.

Instead of worrying about "curious" vs "judgmental", I would instead ask: Who am I helping with this statement?

The author is attempting to help people be more helpful to other people. Clearly you heard them, and it has inspired you to be a better person. Unfortunately, they didn't provide you actionable advice. I'm hoping my suggestion above is better for people.

I use it myself sometimes when responding online. When I first started asking it (or things like it, focusing on the wellbeing of others), I deleted a lot of comments. They simply weren't actually helpful overall.

Another way to look at it: "Am I going to ruin someone's mood with this?" If you are, can you provide the information in a way that doesn't, or at least softens the blow, if they really need to hear it?

I don't enjoy making people unhappy, so it wasn't hard to start concentrating on that first instead of last, and improving all the help I was trying to give. I'm sure I have a long way to go, but I feel like I do better than I used to.

[wruza]

Another deleter-a-lot is “Why do I need this fight?”.

[Fnoord]

With our toddlers we ask ourselves: 'is this the hill you want to die on?' It makes us less judgemental, more curious, more listening, and more self reflective. I believe that is also what 'please listen to what I have to say' means (tho its too often shortened to shouting 'Listen!' which works less well. But we all lack one important currency these days: time. Spending your time on someone is therefore an invaluable investment. Who other than your children deserve it more?

[codeptualize]

What works for me is to assume there is always an explanation, then go look for it.

Could be anything from an actual good reason to do it this way, or some other factors like cost, or maybe even just lack of time, or the best of multiple bad options.

Postpone judgement until you have a good understanding. You could still come to the same conclusion but it will likely be much more nuanced.

Basically empathize with whoever build it or was involved.

Also design/build stuff yourself, do user testing and get feedback; it’s humbling haha.

[jrs235]

Like Chesterton's fence [0].

I get annoyed when other younger/new hires come in and just start bashing and saying how stupid this is that is/was and that the person that did it was dumb or an idiot or incompetent without them first learning the history, context, and environment the decision(s) were made in. And they're typically not wrong. If the decision(s) were made today, I typically agree 100% with them.

[0] https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Chesterton%27s_fence#:~:tex....

[jrs235]

*they're usually not wrong about how stupid the current situation is, but they're wrong that someone is stupid, dumb, or incompetent. Hindsight is 20/20 and historical context is important.

[pronik]

Assume you are wrong until proven otherwise. There are really quite a lot of constraints you are at most times not qualified to reason about. Small example: I was working on implementing accessibility for a government website and was rather baffled at the requirement to provide sign language videos providing basic explanations. I had assumed we'd need to provide augmenting accesibility, i.e. text-to-speech for the blind. In my mind, if a person can see, they can also read. Turns out: no, not the case. Sign language is a separate language and you'd be learning your locally dominant language as a first foreign language, so depending on the community you grow up with, you may as well lack basic literacy in that language. Therefore, sign language videos are more akin to offering the website in different languages that assistive technology. After that incident, I've learned to assume there is always something I don't know which explains the things I find weird.

[petargyurov]

I can strongly recommend the book "The Scout Mindset" by Julia Galef.

It's not only an excellent discussion/lesson on exactly this, it's also an incredibly well written book.

[chillacy]

I found two books so far that had pretty actionable plans to address this.

They first is Difficult Conversations, largely about nonviolent communication, which provides a structured template for “learning conversations”. The relevant advice was: when you feel a strong feeling of disagreement, you tell the other person instead of bottling it up, which lets you ll then transition to a listening state. Like: “When I heard that my first instinct was to disagree because of X. At the same time I know you (insert reason like “have different life perspectives” or “are my friend and care about me”) so I would like to learn more.

The second is The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leaders, which offers a metaphor for the mental state between judgement and curiosity they call “the line”. Being “above the line” is a state of curiosity, “below the line” is judgement and defensiveness. The book goes into physiological reasons, the advice they give is to develop strong awareness of your emotions to detect when you go below the line, then use breathing exercises to quickly resurface. They also have other exercises for developing empathy for other points of view you can do on your own, like isolating narratives from facts and working through all possible narratives for a given situation (like “Tom thinks I am incompetent, I think Tom is incompetent, Tom thinks I am competent, I think Tom is competent”)

I’ve used both to some pretty good success so far, after receiving some feedback that I was not listening well.

[telesilla]

I use self-reflection and internal dialog when I notice I'm feeling judgemental, to drill down to what has created the discomfort. Once you understand your own reactions it's much easier to talk with others. I'm not always aware until later but it works then too as a retrospective. Most people are open to walking through their beliefs with you as long as they feel safe from risk of attack. Apply the same kindness to yourself.

[biql]

Remembering when I was wrong about something I felt strongly about in the past can be a good reminder to suspend harsh judgment.

[DyslexicAtheist]

there is a logical fallacy (not just in the title). It ignores that curiosity will always result in a judgement, and even it's a "positive judgement". If only we stick around long enough we'll need to tear down our original belief (only way to avoid it is not to grow). Being loud (judgemental) makes us look like we have done the leg work (of curiosity). But curiosity is a lot of work and it's easier to get reward by simply looking competent (judging loudly). Exploiting this is easy because it's hard to tell if a stranger has actually put in the legwork and earned their "right" to judgement. And it's also easy to dismiss judgement as "Don't judge just be curious", when in reality, staying curious is impossible once you have a full grasp over a specific topic. (being curious here would mean move on to new things to be curious about).

I'm probably overthinking it. Last weeks I was working on designing an IIoT device (EV charging point) where the customer insists on using the outdated protocol, and not spend the money or time to bother with security. Hardware constraints will rule out there is a future in which this device will be secure (or maintainable). So when I read this:

> By being curious, not judgmental, we can start to understand these peculiar things around us. Only by understanding, we might even find a way to make them better.

It drives me up the wall. Almost impossible for me not to immediately judge and ridicule them, for sloppy thinking, but also for forgetting that a system/idea will only get better by stressing it. And it would be a shame if somebody destroyed their echo chambers, or took a dump in their "safe-space". Perhaps I'd understand the situation a bit better (have empathy) if the people being attacked and ridiculed were unpaid tinkerers or engineers (e.g. FOSS). But a big company like GE? And especially a topic like IoT - I don't think so.

[chillacy]

I’ve been contemplating this topic as well, though more for social issues which I think that I’ve thought deeper on than the other person. The end state is that I believe that I know more than them and therefore my conclusions are “more correct”. It results in a physiological response and I end up in an argumentative state trying to get them to see my position but in the process, failing to query their point of view.

I’m torn because I think there are genuine cases where I do have more information, but I don’t want to become an argumentative person, and logically if offered a 1% choice to possibly learn something new, it would be more beneficial to learn than to not.

I was thinking next time I could try to guess their assumptions and reasoning and they can fill me in on the difference. Then point out and see if they accounted for any extra information I had.

[icu]

Besides living long enough to witness mistakes that took a decade or longer to play out, what I do is use the cognitive bias codex by designhacks.co.

My heuristic is:

Is the subject matter important?

If yes, is the cost of being wrong high?

If yes, am I displaying any signs of cognitive bias? (Consult the cognitive bias codex)

If yes, how do I mitigate the bias?

Once done, has my outlook changed?

What action should I take?

[andrei_says_]

This is close to Sociocracy’s “Is it good enough for now and safe enough to try?”

[grasshopperpurp]

The replies to this are very good. I'd just add that - like anything - it takes practice. You have to train your mind to work this way, and you need to continue to do so. So, don't judge yourself too harshly when it doesn't come easy. Recognize it and continue to practice.

[dools]

Start with questions, even when you know the answer, and listen.

Then follow up with a question.

And repeat this without offering any opinions.

Just practice that.

[ekianjo]

> Dose anyone has good advices to change this kind of mindset ?

The only way you can not be judgmental is by being dead or unconscious. Living is about making judgments about everything, all the time (and most of them become habits at some point).

[Nihilartikel]

A person may not be able to suppress spontaneous judgement, but one can observe the process and reflect on the reasoning, incentive, and emotions that go into it afterwards. Then you can decide if you mind _should_ be made up, or if it might be better to put more effort into a higher order of understanding.

[chillacy]

I once heard this observation: judgement and curiosity are two distinct states of mind. If you’re curious about something, you cannot simultaneously be judgmental.

[rdli]

In improv, there’s an exercise where you say “yes and”. This language construct helps you build on what someone else is saying.

(Because in improv, if you object to something, you can just stop the show.)

It works really well in a professional setting, too. Try it!

[SequoiaHope]

I learned about Buddhism and the concept of lovingkindness and that really helped. I read a short book on Buddhism.

But also finding people who can engage with those they disagree with without resorting to mean behavior and listening to them is probably a good tactic. One person I can think of is Beau of the Fifth Column on YouTube who basically explains a left leaning political position to conservatives and centrists in short videos every day. He’s totally non judgmental and I have found it useful to just listen to the way he describes things. He explains topics that are often divisive without any condescension, which I think is a rare trait in political discussion.

EDIT: Forgot to include the obvious, but therapy. I had all manner of rough edges and I’m still finding tricky situations that my therapist has been helping me with for years. Keep in mind that if you learn to become less judgmental you will have better relationships all around. Better friendships, work relationships and love. My career is much better today because I matured, in a large part through therapy, and can manage complex and difficult discussions with my business partner without upsetting anyone. These changes benefit you and those around you and lead to more harmony and happiness. And you deserve that!

[Skunkleton]

Try looking up “Beginners Mind”. It’s a concept from Zen Buddhism.

[sorokod]

“In the beginner’s mind, there are many possibilities, in the expert’s mind there are few.”

[paradite]

Give it five minutes. My all time favorite advice on exactly how to do that.

https://signalvnoise.com/posts/3124-give-it-five-minutes