Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by matt123456789 1637 days ago
> I have several wechat groups discussing serious political issues in China.

Maybe you do, but do you discuss how millions of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang province were (are?) detained in concentration camps [0] and forced to provide quarter to government agents in their own homes under a dehumanizing “big brother” program [1]? Or how the CCP forced Uighurs to surgically implant IUDs and undergo forced abortion and sterilization procedures [2]? That would probably get you on the CCP’s radar.

Don’t pretend like there’s any semblance of open discussion about truly controversial issues.

> I mean, there is no way that one is constantly watched in China.

The “constantly watched” bit is a total strawman. Nobody is implying that all Chinese citizens are constantly watched by CCP thugs. All that is needed is a search engine on top of indexed WeChat message contents to help direct a limited number of investigations against political dissidents who may threaten the CCP’s grip on power - or as they refer to it, “stability”.

[0]: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1270014

Selected quote: “Every former camp detainee Amnesty interviewed in the report recounted cruel and degrading treatment, including torture. The report, released Thursday, is based on interviews with 108 people, including 55 camp survivors and several government cadres who worked in the camps.”

Yes, it happened. Your most recent comment as of right now attempts to cast doubt on this fact.

[1]: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/05/08/asia/china-xinjiang-ethni...

Selected quote: “Her four "guests" are Chinese government cadres who lived in her home for 10 days every month for two years before her family fled, she said.”

Think about what that would be like. It’s as horrible as it is effective, and it’s partly why the Third Amendment to the US Constitution exists.

[2]: https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-we...

Selected quote: “But while equal on paper, in practice Han Chinese are largely spared the abortions, sterilizations, IUD insertions and detentions for having too many children that are forced on Xinjiang’s other ethnicities, interviews and data show.”

Think about what it would be like for your government to show up at your door, handcuff you, take you to a hospital, anesthetize you, and surgically remove your ability to procreate. That’s what the CCP does to its own people.

1 comments

> do you discuss how millions of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang province were (are?) detained in concentration camps [0]

We discuss that. That was viewed as a western media propaganda. I.e., no hard proof from any reputable organizations (UN for example).

> All that is needed is a search engine on top of indexed WeChat message

I know far worse things the local government did using their information monopoly. You don't need to educate me on that.

What I replied is that the OP wanted to paint a picture of a dystopian monitoring in China, that's not what happens.

> Your most recent comment as of right now attempts to cast doubt on this fact.

These are reports, not facts. I dont believe these reports, because these media shows some incredible buntant manipulation. I simply cannot trust people like these. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS8EceIa1MQ&t=115s

> Her four "guests" are Chinese government cadres who lived in her home for 10 days every month for two years before her family fled, she said.

Well, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS8EceIa1MQ&t=115s, this certainly could be true, but I just cannot fully trust media photoshops trees to extend a narrative.\

> But while equal on paper, in practice Han Chinese are largely spared the abortions, sterilizations, IUD insertions and detentions for having too many children that are forced on Xinjiang’s other ethnicities, interviews and data show.

LMAO

My mother, a Han people, was subject to forced abortion. I was born in a different city than my hometown to evade that.

Stop painting racial conflicts, when there is none.

The lies can go on for a while, but they cannot last forever...

>We discuss that. That was viewed as a western media propaganda. I.e., no hard proof from any reputable organizations (UN for example).

United Nations statement titled "China: UN experts deeply concerned by alleged detention, forced labour of Uyghurs" https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?N...

Statement from 43 countries presented at UN "Joint statement on human rights situation in Xinjiang at 47th Session of UN Human Rights Council" https://www.international.gc.ca/world-monde/international_re...

Amnesty International says "China: Draconian repression of Muslims in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity" https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/06/china-draconi...

Human Rights Watch article "China’s Weak Excuse to Block Investigations in Xinjiang" https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/03/25/chinas-weak-excuse-block...

Another report titled "First independent report into Xinjiang genocide allegations claims evidence of Beijing's 'intent to destroy' Uyghur people" https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/09/asia/china-uyghurs-xinjiang-g...

>The lies can go on for a while, but they cannot last forever...

Indeed.

I have friends visiting Xinjiang and talked with local people, Uyghur and non Uyghurs. There is no evidence that supports the 1M number. You can watch a lot of YouTube video of people visiting Xinjiang and the local people. Make your own judgement.
You're changing the criteria?

>We discuss that. That was viewed as a western media propaganda. I.e., no hard proof from any reputable organizations (UN for example).

In response to that comment, I linked reports from the United Nations, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. Those are 3 of the most reputable organizations in the world in the field of human rights (the links also point out that it's impossible to investigate thoroughly because the Chinese Government won't allow access).

I'm supposed to believe some random Youtuber over them? That's what you're telling me? That's especially hilarious because the very article we're discussing is about manipulating social media, including creating videos specifically for youtube.

Or are you nitpicking the 1M number? If it's 10,000 or 1 million it's still a gross violation of human rights.

They are allegations based on western media reports, which themselves are based on dubious evidences.

Everything so far regarding Xinjiang are all one-sided news rehashing from a few individuals, while the US intelligence with its cutting-edge spy satellites, field agents, cannot find any concrete evidences. Just coincidence?

The Liberian Ministry of Agriculture hasn’t presented any evidence publicly, either. And there’s no mention of it in the Beatles’ 1969 album Abbey Road. I guess you would like to enter these facts into the record as well.

You don’t get to pick and choose the evidence that is presented against you. Evidence that you have failed to explain beyond claiming a grand “media conspiracy”. This is textbook misdirection.