[ascagnel_]

If I remember right, the Saturn shipped shortly before the PlayStation, but it was more expensive ($400USD vs $300USD) and shipped in a manner that annoyed most retailers (it was initially exclusive to KB Toys, I believe). The article also didn't go into the add-ons released for the Genesis/Master System (the Sega32X and SegaCD among them), and how Sega's attempts at keeping the G/MS alive instead wore out many console owners.

[dleslie]

They launched much earlier than expected, before really any meaningful library of games were available. Third party developers were taken completely by surprise by the early launch.

[laumars]

It didn’t help that the Saturn didn’t ship with an SDK and was painful to develop 3D titles on due to being a sprite based machine (3D was effectively transforming sprites. Which caused bugs like breaking alpha blending).

The PlayStation wasn’t exactly easy by modern standards either but it was compared to that generation of consoles. For starters it had an SDK. Then there was the lack of storage constraints (unlike with the N64 cartridge). And while it didn’t have a Z index, at least it’s polygons weren’t just hack around 2D sprites.

That all said, I do still love my Saturn and N64 more than my PlayStation. This is Tony a rational preference but more just what I enjoy more as a retro gamer. In some ways their faults enhance the console.

[agumonkey]

I think I've seen videos saying they somehow overengineered the hardware too, and without libs (as you mention) people struggled to make use of the many processors and couldn't reach goals.

[laumars]

It wasn’t so much over engineered but more old before it’s time. Sega bet on 2D and then retrofitted their console to be 3D after rumours emerged that the PlayStation and N64 were 3D-focused systems.

[loonster]

I wish they would have doubled down on the 2d games.

[laumars]

It was a dead market. Everyone wanted 3D because that’s what they saw at the arcades so that’s where Sega’s developers were already skilled at. Plus that’s what was already appearing on PCs.

[laumars]

The 32x was released by Sega America and the Saturn by Sega Japan. The two groups couldn’t agree on much in that era.

[qqtt]

It's easy to use 20/20 hindsight and say failures were a mistake, but at the time, Genesis was selling like bonkers in the USA and was a relative failure in Japan. Sega (both Japan + USA) had to balance the need to generate excitement for a new console in Japan while maintaining a happy Genesis install base in the USA. At the time, the best compromise seemed to be an early launch of Saturn in Japan while giving the USA market a stop-gap next generation experience to current Genesis owners.

The whole point of the 32x project was to help and excite the American market, and it was developed by Sega USA using Saturn components.

Yes, after the fact when it didn't work out, there was much finger pointing and blame games happening, but at the time, the strategy did not seem to ridiculous and there is a universe it could have worked. Sega invested heavily into the 32x to make it successful, including cannabalizing Saturn's only Sonic game to move it to the 32x (Chaotix).

[laumars]

I wasn’t finger pointing. I was just making the same point you did. :)

Knuckles Chaotix was originally penned to be Sonic 4 but I think it was always planned to be a Mega Drive release. There were a couple of failed attempts at bringing Sonic to the Saturn (the engine of one of them lives on in Saturns “Sonic Jam”) but in the end it was pushed to the Dreamcast as Sonic Adventure (and apparently influenced much of the hardware design of the DC too). There are some leaked demos of Sonic for the Saturn though.

Also I think it’s a stretch to say the Mega Drive was a failure in Japan (the US market was the only market that sold the Mega Drive as “Genesis” and that was due to someone else having the IP for the name “Mega Drive”). It was successful in Japan too. But America and Europe were undoubtedly massive markets too.

I do have both the 32x and Mega CD (as well as several versions of the Mega Drive / Genesis). The 32x wasn’t intended to be a taster for the Saturn (as you stated) but rather a device to prolong the life of the Genesis because of how successful it was. In reality it is hard to see how the 32x wasn’t undermining the Saturns market share (even Sega Japan knew this at the time and weren’t happy about it). But I honestly think the Saturn would have flopped in the west regardless because Sony outplayed Sega at every element of the PlayStation. Sony knew this too; one of the leads on the PlayStation project would often have lunch with the leads for the Saturn and Sony would taunt Sega saying how it’s only a matter of time (there’s extracts of their conversations online but it’s in Japanese).

That all said, it’s worth noting that the Saturn wasn’t a complete flop in Japan. It wasn’t massive but it did sell better than in the west and saw much more titles from more studios too.

The Master System did rather well in Europe. Better than in North America. But the real location the Master System excelled in was South America. Games were still being made relatively recently for that device. In fact there are a number of Sonics ported to the Master System exclusively for the South American audience (such as Sonic Spinball, which was previously a Mega Drive exclusive).

[michaelbrave]

That's about how I remember the Saturn being; at first you couldn't find it anywhere, then it was hard to tell the difference than the Sega CD which I had just gotten, then it was expensive and lastly there wasn't much games for it. I think the only time I really saw it was years later as a display at Toys'r'us showing off "Nights into Dreams" and then it was just kinda forgotten about.

Meanwhile the Dreamcast I had one friend who had one, but I also remember how everyone had a PS2, I remember the backwards comparability and launch titles were what sealed it. I'm the type that would have picked it up a few years later but it kinda always felt like the best games never left Japan for it, and then it was just kinda gone before you knew it.