[vodkapump]

I don't live in Sweden, but in Northern Norway and go to Umeå, Skellefteå, Luleå etc a lot, and I have to agree that these are actually an absolute menace.

I am personally a car person and absolutely love the idea of an EPA in general but I've seen both crashes from them going dangerously slow (30kph on E4an, a motorway where everyone does 120-150kph) and also 250-300kph trying to outrun the police because it's a 15 year old that panics when they see the police because they were going slightly over 30kph, and conclude that flooring their overtuned Volvo 740 and escaping the police is the only thing they can try to not get a license suspension when they become 18.

[Toutouxc]

> 250-300kph trying to outrun the police ... overtuned Volvo 740

I find this hard to believe, a shoebox with wheels going that fast, even with the most powerful engine (2.0 L, 200 hp stock).

[vodkapump]

I've seen plenty of the B230 motor (2.3L) tuned to high 500hp so that is definitely not a problem.

[Toutouxc]

You're right, it's a 2.3L engine and holy smokes, that thing with 500 hp sounds seriously scary. Like a rocket powered sled.

[vodkapump]

I've seen some extreme builds way past 500hp too, but those tend to be more show car type builds.

You can actually quite reliably get 450-500hp out of a 2.3 redblock without even spending that much money, redblocks are notorious in tuning communities for this, almost like the 2JZ of Sweden

[canbus]

Viva la Redblock.

[R0flcopt3r]

240kmph is where the gearing ends on a 740 iirc. The biggest engine is a 2.3l turbo that makes 170 hp stock. however, very little work goes into getting it to 300hp. Upgraded turbo, clutch, injectors and an off the shelf chip tune that you simply slot in. Past 300hp and you're looking at beefier rods and most definitely transmission upgrade or a non existent third gear.

[Aeolun]

I find this hard to believe for a different reason. Your average car becomes quite hard to control at 160kph ish (barring a completely straight stretch of road). I cannot see a 15 year old surviving any instance of going over 250kph, much less something described as ‘escaping from the police’.

[semi-extrinsic]

I had an old 240 with the naturally aspirated B230. Going 160 kph was not really a big issue, of course not in a tight corner, but OK on regular open roads in Sweden. But 250 kph is pushing the limits for sure.

And I think you're actually agreeing with GP here, since the outcome of those attempted escapes are typically fatal accidents rather than teen escaping.

[Peanuts99]

Why does the age of car matter?

[mauvehaus]

All else being equal (initial engineering and handling), an older car has a lot more wear and play in the suspension components. If you haven't spent much time under a car, there's a surprising amount of rubber there in the form of bushings.

Over time, the rubber loses its resilience, and doesn't keep things located as they should be for best handling.

Metal on metal pivots wear as well, springs get less springy, dampers degrade in damping ability, etc.

You're unlikely to notice at regular speeds, apart from getting in a new car and the handling feeling sharper. I presume at high speed and under the sorts of maneuvers one might try as a teenager doing teenager things, the results could vary.

[guywhocodes]

For sure a friend of mine had a very old EPA, it would be about 70 years today if it still exists. It could not go faster than 50kph because the handling combined with imbalance in something almost shook it off the road while going "straight".

[throwaway0a5e]

Mostly because fat sidewalls and suspension tuning that prioritized comfort over having a lap time .04sec less than whatever other mom-mobile the Consumer Reports journalist is comparing yours to.

[CRConrad]

The 740 was also available with the 2.7-liter PRV V6.

[hrnnnnnn]

In the UK I'm pretty sure you'd get pulled over by the police for doing 30kph on the motorway, it's reckless driving and you're putting yourself and others in danger.

[vodkapump]

It is definitely not legal, but does happen very occasionally.

The issue is that 15 year olds are just that, 15 year old kids.

[emteycz]

How come 16 year old kids can drive just fine in the US?

[boomboomsubban]

They can't. Teens have a far higher rate of crashing than any other age group with only over 80 even coming close. From the NSC

>Sixteen- to 19-year-olds represent 3.9% of licensed drivers, but account for 8.6% of drivers in all crashes and 6.0% of drivers in fatal crashes.

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/age-of-dr...

[Dylan16807]

Huh, 1.5x fatalities is not as bad as I expected.

Especially since those are the least experienced drivers. I wonder how 18-21 drivers look in countries with a higher age.

Though one way to look at it is that a teen driver today is just as safe/dangerous as an average driver 20 years ago, much safer than an average driver 30 years ago, and over twice as safe as an average driver 40 years ago. At least as far as fatalities go.

[boomboomsubban]

>Especially since those are the least experienced drivers.

They're also the only cohort that can't legally drink, which probably lowers their fatality rate somewhat.

[lotsofpulp]

Cars are much, much safer than 20, 30, and 40 years ago.

You would have to look at number of all collisions, not just fatalities to get any idea if today’s teens are safer compared to teens in the past.

[Aeolun]

Being young probably helps them quite a lot if they do get in a crash. I’d like to see the numbers for overall crashes and hospitalizations.

[bjoli]

They also drive a lot less less than the average driver.

[HPsquared]

The risk of young drivers can be mitigated by more rigorous driving tests, and also driver monitoring of risky drivers (check for patterns of sudden braking, speeding, things like that) by insurers.

[croon]

Maybe unpopular, but US drivers are in general really bad because the drivers tests are too easy and taken when you're younger.

It's driven (no pun intended) by a culture around cars and driving being a right, without consideration for whether everyone should.

[nivenkos]

But driving in the US is much, much easier than most of Europe.

Like a small city in Calfornia vs. Barcelona was a world of difference. The US has lots of wide, straight roads instead of the nightmare of one-way streets, bus lanes, bike lanes, mopeds and motorcycles etc. in Europe.

[Zak]

As an American currently living in Europe, who has driven in almost every US state and over half the countries in the EU, I don't fully agree. Driving in the US may be easier in the sense of requiring less cognitive load most of the time, but that doesn't translate into lower risk.

The challenges are different, but the probability of a fatal collision is higher in the US, whether per person or per vehicle, than in most EU countries. This doesn't surprise me, and it's not just due to driver training.

Navigating small streets built before cars is very likely to lead to broken side mirrors and scratched paint, but not injury or death. Misusing a bus lane gets you angry honking and gesturing from bus drivers and maybe a ticket from the police, but not injured or killed. A low-speed car-on-moped collision is bad of course, but not as bad as a car on one of those wide, straight American roads running a red light at 60 MPH and crashing into your driver's door at a right angle.

Here's a study with evidence that very wide lanes result in people driving faster and crashing more frequently, a particularly bad combination for safety.

https://www.academia.edu/12488747/Narrower_Lanes_Safer_Stree...

[MathCodeLove]

Extremely true. I lived in Italy for 2 years and driving there was a nightmare, I feel as if I can easily conquer any road in the US now.