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by vodkapump 1639 days ago
It is definitely not legal, but does happen very occasionally.

The issue is that 15 year olds are just that, 15 year old kids.

1 comments

How come 16 year old kids can drive just fine in the US?
They can't. Teens have a far higher rate of crashing than any other age group with only over 80 even coming close. From the NSC

>Sixteen- to 19-year-olds represent 3.9% of licensed drivers, but account for 8.6% of drivers in all crashes and 6.0% of drivers in fatal crashes.

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/age-of-dr...

Huh, 1.5x fatalities is not as bad as I expected.

Especially since those are the least experienced drivers. I wonder how 18-21 drivers look in countries with a higher age.

Though one way to look at it is that a teen driver today is just as safe/dangerous as an average driver 20 years ago, much safer than an average driver 30 years ago, and over twice as safe as an average driver 40 years ago. At least as far as fatalities go.

>Especially since those are the least experienced drivers.

They're also the only cohort that can't legally drink, which probably lowers their fatality rate somewhat.

In the U.S., 18–21 year olds cannot legally drink, either: the federal government withholds highway funds from any state which has a drinking age less than 21, so they all raised their drinking ages.
The cohorts were 16-19 then 20-24. The second cohort has a year without legal drinking, I paraphrased too much.
Cars are much, much safer than 20, 30, and 40 years ago.

You would have to look at number of all collisions, not just fatalities to get any idea if today’s teens are safer compared to teens in the past.

> Cars are much, much safer than 20, 30, and 40 years ago.

Yes, that's my point. When cars are vastly safer, maybe it's not so bad to let moderately worse drivers be on the road.

> You would have to look at number of all collisions, not just fatalities to get any idea if today’s teens are safer compared to teens in the past.

Depends on what kind of safety you're worried about. Also I couldn't find any raw collision statistics.

> Yes, that's my point. When cars are vastly safer, maybe it's not so bad to let moderately worse drivers be on the road.

Tell that to the pedestrians, cyclists and motorcycle drivers and see what they will say.

The reporting rate for collisions has gone up which confounds that measurement

Back in the day when costs were lower it was much more common to reconcile things without involving third parties and the legal requirements for max damage in low speed collisions were much more stringent.

Being young probably helps them quite a lot if they do get in a crash. I’d like to see the numbers for overall crashes and hospitalizations.
They also drive a lot less less than the average driver.
The risk of young drivers can be mitigated by more rigorous driving tests, and also driver monitoring of risky drivers (check for patterns of sudden braking, speeding, things like that) by insurers.
Maybe unpopular, but US drivers are in general really bad because the drivers tests are too easy and taken when you're younger.

It's driven (no pun intended) by a culture around cars and driving being a right, without consideration for whether everyone should.

But driving in the US is much, much easier than most of Europe.

Like a small city in Calfornia vs. Barcelona was a world of difference. The US has lots of wide, straight roads instead of the nightmare of one-way streets, bus lanes, bike lanes, mopeds and motorcycles etc. in Europe.

As an American currently living in Europe, who has driven in almost every US state and over half the countries in the EU, I don't fully agree. Driving in the US may be easier in the sense of requiring less cognitive load most of the time, but that doesn't translate into lower risk.

The challenges are different, but the probability of a fatal collision is higher in the US, whether per person or per vehicle, than in most EU countries. This doesn't surprise me, and it's not just due to driver training.

Navigating small streets built before cars is very likely to lead to broken side mirrors and scratched paint, but not injury or death. Misusing a bus lane gets you angry honking and gesturing from bus drivers and maybe a ticket from the police, but not injured or killed. A low-speed car-on-moped collision is bad of course, but not as bad as a car on one of those wide, straight American roads running a red light at 60 MPH and crashing into your driver's door at a right angle.

Here's a study with evidence that very wide lanes result in people driving faster and crashing more frequently, a particularly bad combination for safety.

https://www.academia.edu/12488747/Narrower_Lanes_Safer_Stree...

Extremely true. I lived in Italy for 2 years and driving there was a nightmare, I feel as if I can easily conquer any road in the US now.