[dkonofalski]

Of course I have. A VJ with an old Macbook Pro isn't someone for whom this dot makes the display "unusable". If it did, then they wouldn't be using it because they could also have notifications, OS alerts, security prompts, or anything else that shows up on a display come up during their performance.

[honkdaddy]

There's a _massive_ difference between an unremovable and highly visible orange dot and the small chance that "notifications, OS alerts, security prompts etc." could pop up. I think it's undeniable that there's a contingent of people who play live video who will be negatively affected by this change and I'm surprised so many in this thread are implying that if they don't own a playback card, their experience doesn't matter.

[dkonofalski]

No one is saying their experience doesn't matter. Stop arguing straw men. All anyone is saying is that, if having the ability to control the output that's going to a display outside of the OS is a necessity, then you need a hardware controller. That has always been the case. The OS can always interfere with a full-screen app on a secondary display. The only reason there's any issue now is that these people disagree with this specific feature of the OS. It's not "unremovable". Just turn off whatever recording device is active and it'll go away. If you're a bit more tech savvy, turn off SIP and change it yourself or go to github and built the utility that already exists to get rid of it.

All anyone in this thread is implying is that, if this is important to you, you need to have the hardware to do it. If Microsoft tomorrow decided to put a Windows logo in the corner of the screen just to say "fuck you", you would still be unaffected with a hardware I/O device.

[Dylan16807]

> All anyone is saying is that, if having the ability to control the output that's going to a display outside of the OS is a necessity, then you need a hardware controller. That has always been the case.

And without the orange dot issue, it wasn't necessary to have absolute perfect control. (Which could still go wrong anyway, because it's a computer.) Making it necessary all of a sudden is bad.

Or to put it another way, even without a hardware controller it was possible to have your macbook's use of an external output be one of the strongest links in the chain. Which is enough. Was enough.

[dkonofalski]

>it was possible to have your macbook's use of an external output be one of the strongest links in the chain

Not if you need to be able to decide was is and isn't displayed. The I/O subsystem on Monterey is almost exactly the same as it has been since like Mavericks. If it was enough in the past because people were lucky, then that's awesome. There are ways to deal with the dot if people want to continue running these setups off of luck and ignorance. I'm only arguing against the people that say the dot makes their setup "unusable" and somehow ruins their livelihood.

[honkdaddy]

I'm not arguing a strawman, I'm arguing your preposition that because "notifications, OS alerts, security prompts" can also pop up, it's unreasonable for someone to complain about the recording indicator. They're entirely different animals and the fact you're comparing the two seems very uncharitable to me.

> Just turn off whatever recording device is active

It seems you haven't considered that the most obvious scenario someone would be annoyed about this is during a multimedia presentation when they're running both a video output and recording audio over top, an extremely common use-case that performers I personally know take part in. Suggesting this clearly non-technical individual to turn off SIP and compile and run some arbitrary code from Github is laughable to me.

[dkonofalski]

>They're entirely different animals

They're not, though. I only used notifications and the like because they were common things that people probably have experienced outside of this specific situation. It doesn't have to be that. It could have been a microphone icon or a speaker icon or literally whatever the OS wants to display. And I'm not even arguing that it's unreasonable to complain about the recording indicator. I'm arguing that people who claim that something being on screen that they didn't want makes their workflow "unusable". If that was the case, there are solutions for that and they've been around for years. Just because they weren't affected by their ignorance in the past doesn't excuse that.

>clearly non-technical individual

If this person is that non-technical, then something like this is definitely not a showstopper that makes it "unusable". They are not the people I'm directing these comments at.

[radley]

> because they could also have notifications, OS alerts, security prompts

Most will be using HDMI out as a second screen, so those won't show up

> Yes. I currently work in this industry

What do you use for video output? I'm a hobbyist and used iPad & TouchViz with HDMI plug. I just picked up Resolume and planned to use a Mac Mini M1 w/ Monterey and HDMI out. I'm livestreaming, so I'm only doing 1080.

[ComputerGuru]

Do Not Disturb/Focus is a thing.

[dkonofalski]

Not the same thing. Focus doesn't prevent the OS from generating windows or alerts on top of your display content.

[ComputerGuru]

You're not typically cloning your main screen but rather outputting to a second display (that doesn't have the focus). It would be very weird indeed for a notification to wind up on that display.

[dkonofalski]

Weird but not impossible. The whole point here is that professionals who can't take that chance have always had to use a hardware I/O device because there is no other option.

[ComputerGuru]

Perhaps professionals with a lot of money riding on it, sure. But for prosumers, the status quo was good enough that breaking it cannot be justified by "oh it wasn't perfect so who cares?"

[dkonofalski]

That wasn't the status quo. The OS has always been able to display things on top of full-screen apps and apps cannot change that.

[myself248]

Airplane mode nearly prevents almost all the triggers that would cause such things to pop up. I thought this was standard VJ advice; turn on airplane mode before a performance.

Doesn't fix the orange dot, but it helps pretty much everything else.

[dkonofalski]

>helps pretty much everything else

Helps but doesn't solve. There is nothing that you can do to remove the OS's ability to put things on a secondary display outside of your control. The only option is to have a separate I/O controller.

[nathancahill]

Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfUeUCErCmQ

[dkonofalski]

A man after my own heart. That was awesome.