[honkdaddy]

There's a _massive_ difference between an unremovable and highly visible orange dot and the small chance that "notifications, OS alerts, security prompts etc." could pop up. I think it's undeniable that there's a contingent of people who play live video who will be negatively affected by this change and I'm surprised so many in this thread are implying that if they don't own a playback card, their experience doesn't matter.

[dkonofalski]

No one is saying their experience doesn't matter. Stop arguing straw men. All anyone is saying is that, if having the ability to control the output that's going to a display outside of the OS is a necessity, then you need a hardware controller. That has always been the case. The OS can always interfere with a full-screen app on a secondary display. The only reason there's any issue now is that these people disagree with this specific feature of the OS. It's not "unremovable". Just turn off whatever recording device is active and it'll go away. If you're a bit more tech savvy, turn off SIP and change it yourself or go to github and built the utility that already exists to get rid of it.

All anyone in this thread is implying is that, if this is important to you, you need to have the hardware to do it. If Microsoft tomorrow decided to put a Windows logo in the corner of the screen just to say "fuck you", you would still be unaffected with a hardware I/O device.

[Dylan16807]

> All anyone is saying is that, if having the ability to control the output that's going to a display outside of the OS is a necessity, then you need a hardware controller. That has always been the case.

And without the orange dot issue, it wasn't necessary to have absolute perfect control. (Which could still go wrong anyway, because it's a computer.) Making it necessary all of a sudden is bad.

Or to put it another way, even without a hardware controller it was possible to have your macbook's use of an external output be one of the strongest links in the chain. Which is enough. Was enough.

[dkonofalski]

>it was possible to have your macbook's use of an external output be one of the strongest links in the chain

Not if you need to be able to decide was is and isn't displayed. The I/O subsystem on Monterey is almost exactly the same as it has been since like Mavericks. If it was enough in the past because people were lucky, then that's awesome. There are ways to deal with the dot if people want to continue running these setups off of luck and ignorance. I'm only arguing against the people that say the dot makes their setup "unusable" and somehow ruins their livelihood.

[honkdaddy]

I'm not arguing a strawman, I'm arguing your preposition that because "notifications, OS alerts, security prompts" can also pop up, it's unreasonable for someone to complain about the recording indicator. They're entirely different animals and the fact you're comparing the two seems very uncharitable to me.

> Just turn off whatever recording device is active

It seems you haven't considered that the most obvious scenario someone would be annoyed about this is during a multimedia presentation when they're running both a video output and recording audio over top, an extremely common use-case that performers I personally know take part in. Suggesting this clearly non-technical individual to turn off SIP and compile and run some arbitrary code from Github is laughable to me.

[dkonofalski]

>They're entirely different animals

They're not, though. I only used notifications and the like because they were common things that people probably have experienced outside of this specific situation. It doesn't have to be that. It could have been a microphone icon or a speaker icon or literally whatever the OS wants to display. And I'm not even arguing that it's unreasonable to complain about the recording indicator. I'm arguing that people who claim that something being on screen that they didn't want makes their workflow "unusable". If that was the case, there are solutions for that and they've been around for years. Just because they weren't affected by their ignorance in the past doesn't excuse that.

>clearly non-technical individual

If this person is that non-technical, then something like this is definitely not a showstopper that makes it "unusable". They are not the people I'm directing these comments at.