[peoplefromibiza]

> But how many HP/Dell/Lenovo etc laptops do you have from 2013 that still run like new?

many

I don't see many old macs around, because they're harder and more expensive to repair.

> if replaced every year

that's a big if.

The assumption is that Pro market will drive general adoption.

It's a false premise.

Pro market, especially Apple Pro market, it's predictive of exactly nothing.

[gurkendoktor]

> I don't see many old macs around

Just anecdata, but from walking through German trains, I disagree. I still see non-Retina MacBook Airs on some trays, for example, last sold in 2015.

Some Mac models are clearly more reliable and maintainable than others, see the butterfly keyboard fiasco. But I think companies should be judged by their better products, not the duds.

[gigatexal]

Yes 2016 to 2020 for keyboards was a terrible terrible black eye for my narrative. The damn keyboard fiasco.

[gigatexal]

> that's a big if. > The assumption is that Pro market will drive general adoption. > It's a false premise. > Pro market, especially Apple Pro market, it's predictive of exactly nothing.

Hah. It is actually. Apple releases the MacBook Air... what does the PC market do in lock step? Try to copy it. We can thank Apple for insisting on SSDs in the laptop for all our PC laptops having them. When Apple moves industries follow. That won't be like that forever but it is currently.

[dijit]

This is true for the good and bad.

Apple removed CD drives and Ethernet ports: everyone does.

Apple removes HDMI, many do.

Apple removes headphone jack from phones: everyone mocks, the follows.

[gigatexal]

> But how many HP/Dell/Lenovo etc laptops do you have from 2013 that still run like new? >> many

I find that hard to believe. You're claiming plastic race-to-the-bottom laptop pc makers are building machines that last as long as all aluminium premium Macs? Fat chance.

Re the software issue, yeah, that's a pain. I do plan on putting Linux on it when I replace it with another Mac laptop, probably a M1. But that just furthers my point that Apple makes the best, longest lasting hardware.

But to each their own.

[opan]

If you wanted your comparison to be as lopsided as it sounds like you were thinking it was, you should've listed different companies. All three of those companies make high-end business laptops (EliteBook, Latitude/Precision, ThinkPad) that are absolutely built to last and have a cult following for it (ThinkPads especially). You should've listed Acer or some of the gaming brands to represent the ones that don't seem to last. I can say personally I have a ThinkPad X220T (Sandy Bridge) and ThinkPad T440p (Haswell) that are still working great. I sold a ThinkPad T60p just a few years ago that was still working as well, although it was showing its age with its 2GB of RAM and 32bit CPU (upgradable to a 64bit Core 2 Duo in theory).

[peoplefromibiza]

> find that hard to believe. You're claiming plastic race-to-the-bottom laptop pc makers are building machines that last as long as all aluminium premium Macs? Fat chance.

I'm not saying that, at all.

I am saying that people keep reasonably priced hardware for longer than Mac owners because they don't have money to waste and can actually repair and upgrade them for cheap.

[gigatexal]

It’s not a waste. Referring to mac purchases as “wasteful” recycles tropes that are just false. That’s all I’m getting at. But I realize I’m shilling for a company that doesn’t need me to. Buy them, or don’t. It doesn’t matter to me or to Apple really. I prefer them for hardware. I like MacOS most of the time but sometimes yearn for Linux though things on my mac just work and I’m super keen to move to the M1 or M2.