[eesmith]

Don't forget bias error. The linked-to site gets contributions from around the world. There's 45 million mothers in the US, so source population of about 100 million mothers. If 0.1% of families have no other male presence that's 100K families. If 0.01% of these mothers don't notice [1], that's still 10 families.

And it's the unusual which make it to sites like these. ("When dog bites man, it's not news. But when man bites dog, now that is news!")

[1] Or it could be the mother didn't know how to bring it up, or thought she was being supportive of her son's choices.

[anotherman554]

I feel like if the boy went to school with male students the other boys would make fun of him until he conformed to the standard behavior, or until he decided he didn't care if people made fun of him.

[eesmith]

... yes. Which is probably why the text says "She laughs and apologizes after [Stepdad] tells her I am lucky I've never showered at school or I'd be a laughing stock" and "I'm SO GLAD he was around before I started high school; I can't imagine that would have been a pleasant experience doing things the way I'd always done them."

Could other 11 year olds spot a boy using mascara, a differing from one with thick eyelashes?

Or tell that someone is shaving his legs when there isn't yet even peach fuzz on his chin?

I couldn't, but I'm pretty oblivious to such things.

[whimsicalism]

> Could other 11 year olds spot a boy using mascara, a differing from one with thick eyelashes?

I think they would just default to making fun of him for wearing mascara. (source: i have thick eyelashes)

> Or tell that someone is shaving his legs when there isn't yet even peach fuzz on his chin?

definitely not.

> I couldn't, but I'm pretty oblivious to such things.

as am i, but i've learned that many other people are oddly skilled at picking up on these things.

[johnisgood]

Well, there's a growing trend against bullying. Personally, bullying toughened me up, and it affected me in ways that I am glad for. Of course it could have gone wrong, too.

[whimsicalism]

eh, i think i am largely glad the whole bullying + male chauvinism thing is slowly dying out.

i think the next step is recognizing that this is a problem that needs to be confronted for both men and women. "toxic masculinity" among men is frequently nowadays talked about and criticized, but i think women are given a bit too much of a pass in holding pretty shitty gendered/trad expectations of men.

[nefitty]

I couldn't use chapstick in elementary school because of the relentless bullying it inevitably triggered. Not just toward me, but any male that dared to hydrate his lips. That sort of reaction made me super averse toward any sort of preening-type of behavior, lest I be perceived as feminine.

Even now, I'm more comfortable if I look at least a little unkempt, as if I work outside with my hands or something. I consciously know it's dumb, but my wife expresses preferences for that unkemptness in me as well.

[selimthegrim]

Did any of these kids ever chop wood outside in the winter or hunt?

[nefitty]

No, they either ran home to watch Dragonball Z or Pokemon depending on if they had cable or not.

[LNSY]

Probably not. American Masculinity is both violently enforced and generates a bunch of whiny cry babies. I mean, just look at Donald Trump.

[johnisgood]

I wonder why this comment is getting down-voted. I am talking about my own experience, and I also acknowledge that it could have gone wrong. What exactly is down-vote worthy here?

[eesmith]

"Could have gone wrong" is a mild phrase which doesn't reflect the reasons why there is trend against bullying.

An amputee might find strength and toughness in learning to adapt to being without an arm. That doesn't mean we go around encouraging people to cut off their arms. I suspect most amputees would rather not have to have that experience in the first place.

Quoting "Bullying: A Module for Teachers" at https://www.apa.org/education-career/k12/bullying under "Myths about bullying"

> Many beliefs about school bullying are not supported by current research. These are among the most common myths that even some teachers have been known to endorse: ...

> Being a victim builds character.

> Another misconception is that bullying is a normal part of the childhood and adolescence experience, and that surviving peer harassment builds character. In contrast to this view, research findings clearly show that being bullied increases the vulnerabilities of bullied children. For example, we know that children who are passive and socially withdrawn are at a heightened risk of getting bullied and these children become even more withdrawn after incidents of harassment (Schwartz, Dodge, & Coie, 1993).

How many other people suffered, in being part of the same bullying environment from which you drew your character?

[anotherman554]

I can't speak for those who downvoted you, but the implication of your post (whether intentional or not) is someone might be doing someone a favor by bullying them. (You are "glad" that it happened.) I rolled my eyes at the image of a person punching people in the face and then lecturing them on how they did them a favor.