[sph]

What's great is that it's mostly done for the street cred. To show off how cool you are, you need to work in the public, and present your results for all to see, for free.

"This is how cool I am. I have cracked it before everybody else."

They're positioned on the complete opposite of the modern corporate, capitalist Internet, keeping computers open and still cool. For that, I salute them.

[__alexs]

While I'm sure street cred plays a factor there is also good money in being able to break the protections to enable piracy.

[bri3d]

I don't think this is true anymore, having had experience in this space.

In the "bad old days," you could make a moderate (nothing like Silicon Valley engineer money) sum by selling exploits to modchip manufacturers, as they'd then use this to drive their hardware sales - pretty simple model. The last one of these I remember being particularly popular was the PS3 "True Blue" dongle.

These days, exploits aren't particularly useful to drive hardware sales as they're mostly hardware free. So there's not a ton of monetary value - yes, you could try to sell a "custom firmware" for a few months, but once the exploit is reversed, it's game over for your income stream.

Cheating is probably the only major revenue stream left in console exploitation, and as far as I know it's not popular enough to drive high prices for console exploits. Compared to phone exploits (wanted by nation-level actors and shady security firms for mostly evil purposes), ECU exploits (easier to protect and worth more per install), and PC exploit bug bounties, I think console hacking is pretty low on the lucrative scale, which is why so much more of it is done in the open.

[deelowe]

There seems to be some suspicion that there is a cottage industry forming around undetectable cheats for streamers... Not sure how true this is.

[bri3d]

This is absolutely true in the PC space, cheating is a growing business.

There was a thread on HN about this the other day - at the most advanced end, bus mastering DMA devices are used to dump game memory for direct inspection, or to recover ephemeral / session negotiated keys used to secure client<->server traffic, and then dump or inject network traffic on a separate machine. PCIe FPGA cards are the most popular tool for this, but there are other approaches given anything with DMA mastering can be employed to sneak data out without the OS or user land knowing much about it.

There's also a big middle ground which is just a software cat and mouse game between detectability and effect - just like antivirus, anti-cheat is an uphill battle on machines where users can run whatever code they'd like.

Many of these cheating services are subscription based so they're pretty lucrative for the authors.

But, I'm not aware of as much (or really, any) of this going on in the console space. There aren't that many competitive console streamers to start with, and console eSports events generally use tournament-provided hardware. So, the possible revenue stream doesn't really reach the massive undertaking that would be required to break modern console security on anything but the Switch.

[KennyBlanken]

This wouldn't surprise me in the least, in shooting games. People don't like watching someone getting their ass kicked.

Also, to succeed as a streamer you have to stream ~40 hours a week or more, and there's something called "aim fatigue". After an hour or so without breaks, your aim goes downhill. Anyone who maintains amazing aim for hours of continuous play is cheating. That's why you see experienced, successful streamers taking breaks, or interspersing "hang out time" or a non-aim-based game, etc.

Stream framerates / compression can make it difficult to tell what's going on, and using a controller means it's nearly impossible to see whether their controller movement matches on-screen movement. But controller aim assist is so strong in many games these days that if you have experience with a controller you can easily dominate all but the top mouse and keyboard players.

Shooting-based games just aren't fun these days. Between the cheaters and the streamers you get your ass handed to you pretty regularly, except when matchmaking throws you an easy game to keep you from rage-quitting.

[R0b0t1]

They haven't been fun for a long time. I realized ages ago performance was mostly ping based. You had to have skill if your ping was OK, but if you didn't have a good ping, no amount of skill would help you.

[tentacleuno]

> But controller aim assist is so strong in many games these days that if you have experience with a controller you can easily dominate all but the top mouse and keyboard players.

Man, that's so weird to see.

I've always been told by fellow gamers that a keyboard and mouse is the competitive option, while controllers are for the less experienced.

[throwaway09223]

Are you sure? How exactly would this be monetized?

By publishing the exploit they lose any market advantage.