[woile]

I'd argue that hunter gatherers had all of the units of freedoms, and when full centralization happened (monarchies) we lost all those units. Democracy gave you back some units by decentralizing power (not fully).

I'm not saying decentralizing more is gonna give you more freedom, more like a different take. I think your point is still valid, there has to be an equilibrium and I just don't know where it lays.

[ewzimm]

I think you would enjoy the recently published book, "The Dawn of Everything" by David Graeber and David Wengrow. A point made early in the book is that Native American criticisms of European society, particularly its lack of freedom and mutual aid, led to the development of defensive European theories of civilizational development that proposed that the loss of freedom was the inevitable result of the movement from hunter-gatherer societies toward agriculture and monarchies. Democratic revolutions around the world have changed cultural attitudes about freedom to be much more like Native American ideas, but many people still operate in the framework of civilizational development that had more to do with justifying power than accurately modeling historical events.

The idea that we would have to revert to independent bands of hunter-gatherers to achieve freedom acts as a mental block. This is not to say that this movement away from freedom is completely ahistorical but that cultural attitudes about power have been much more dynamic, flexible, and even seasonal than the kind of linear movement toward inevitable constraints that might fit into the theory. By examining the many different types of arrengements people have instituted, we might learn new ways of organizing ourselves. There are plenty of opportunities to do so in the world today.

[tremon]

What does "Native American" mean in your post? Are you referring to early interactions between the colonizers and the inhabitants of North America, or present-day Native Americans that have lived in Europe?

[ewzimm]

I'm referring to a series of cultural criticisms that began around the 16th century and have continued into the present day. Some were by people who only encountered Europeans in America. Others traveled to Europe to debate and discuss policy and culture with people there as well. One individual that the book focuses on is Kandiaronk, a 17th century Wendat intellectual who debated the French governor in Montreal and whose arguments were popularized by the French soldier Lahonton.