[mrec]

> most people buying stuff on Amazon would be using a debit card, folks only really use credit cards for large purchases

Huh? I'm in the UK, have been an Amazon customer for over 20 years and have always used a credit card for everything. I didn't even know you could use a debit card, and can't see any reason you'd want to. Paid off in full every month, better consumer protection, what's not to like?

[input_sh]

Here's why: two debit cards, one for receiving money, one for spending money. Automated payment from the 1st one to the 2nd one once a month with a fixed amount you expect to spend in a month.

Nothing to pay off, you're spending your own money, can't be overcharged, can't go below zero, if someone leaks your spending card they can't touch the majority of your money, no scummy business practices.

Never owned a credit card, don't have the slightest wish to do so.

[rlpb]

> can't be overcharged, can't go below zero

In the UK, it's really hard to get a bank account where they'll do that. Instead they'll pay it, call it an "unauthorised overdraft" and then charge you for that. This is their business model - it's how they make sufficient income to operate.

There are "basic bank accounts" which don't provide a credit facility, but these only exist because people with poor credit histories can't get bank accounts otherwise, and the regulator has threatened to enforce their availability otherwise. However since this means that there currently isn't any rule, the banks make it very difficult for an ordinary person (with good credit) to open a "basic bank account".

[imwillofficial]

“it's how they make sufficient income to operate.” No. This is how the practice parasitism on the poor.

[rlpb]

To be clear, I don't agree with it, but it is how the current account market in the UK operates.

More information here: https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN03...

And a Supreme Court decision here: https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2009-0070-judgme...

[Closi]

> In the UK, it's really hard to get a bank account where they'll do that.

I'm pretty sure all of them do, just ring up your bank and ask them to set your overdraft limit to 0

I've certainly done this with HSBC & Santander in the past, and when I got my Monzo account it was 0 by default (You had to sign up for an overdraft if you wanted one).

[rlpb]

An overdraft limit of 0 just means that you end up in an unauthorised overdraft sooner.

Monzo might be an exception here.

[heurisko]

> Never owned a credit card, don't have the slightest wish to do so.

I own a credit card, as you get additional consumer protections using a credit card rather than a debit card in the UK.

Pay it off in full every month. No problem.

[londons_explore]

Specifically, the main protection is that if you buy something that turns out to be faulty or the company never delivers the goods, you can get the money back without going to court. You get the money back even if the company goes bankrupt.

Some banks offer similar things on debit cards, but it's always at the banks discretion rather than required by law.

[murkle]

(*) over £100

[ricardobayes]

It is an insurance policy then. Have you calculated how much this insurance cost you? Credit card fees, the inevitable 'forgot to pay it off' etc.

[tialaramex]

There is no "inevitable forgot to pay it off". Last century when I was old enough I got a credit card and the bank set it to automatically pay off every month. The bank says to itself, full balance of this account this month is say £462.83 and must be paid on or before the 7th of December, then it sets a transfer to occur from my checking account for the amount £462.83 on the 7th of December. No "forgetting" possible.

Indeed if say an IT problem occurs and they can't do that transfer under UK law they eat the fees incurred. "The customer must be made whole".

As to fees, the merchant doesn't have to accept cards, as we see with Amazon, if they don't like the fees. Why should ordinary consumers care? When we were part of the EU the cards couldn't charge excessive fees, now Brexit allowed them to unlock this potential source of profit.

[GoodbyeMrChips]

In the UK, credit cards are free (some specialist cards aside), including an automatic direct debit so you never forget to pay it off, so you never get charged interest.

Never paid a penny in fees or interest in over 15 years.... and an annual statement of fees (issued by law) informs me of this fact each year.

[smaryjerry]

Same in the US. Credit cards are so convenient and free and come with rewards. Of course most people don’t realize until they are older that all that ‘money back rewards’ was essentially paid by themselves originally, by the vendor paying the credit card company a fee on every transaction. The issue is that credit card companies build in requirements to be endorsed that they don’t charge different prices for cash only transactions often.

[fuzzer37]

Yes. Anyone paying fees on a credit card should jump ship, that's a huge red flag. And I've made more in cash back rewards than I'll ever pay in interest.

[dwild]

The credit card fee is included in the price of the item, whether you use a credit card or a debit card, it's there.

[aysfrm11]

In Europe just using debit cards is perfectly viable in 99% of the cases, however when it comes to car rentals you are still in some locations forced to provide a 'real' credit card.

I write 'real' since most of the FinTechs like Revolut, N26 etc often issue debit cards that may fail in exactly that situation. It doesn't help if your account is flush with 10k USD and a car rental could easily block 2k for claims on your debit card, some will just not accept Revolut & co. Thus I am always forced to carry an emergency backup credit card from a major bank just to be on the safe side...

Very much looking forward to the day some other means of international payment (crypto?) will be generally accepted.

[ricardobayes]

I am so fortunate to live a in a truly free country that has not yet caved in to most of the western crap despite being a western first world country. Spain. Here the rental companies accept even cash, and the person who pays doesn't even need to be the same as the one who rents.

[londons_explore]

They require a credit card because credit card companies have robust ID and credit checking. If their ID checks weren't great, someone could steal the whole credit limit.

Banks and debit providers also do ID checks, as required by law, but don't check anywhere near as hard, since there is no way to steal money from the bank if your account can't go negative.

[mattowen_uk]

> Never owned a credit card, don't have the slightest wish to do so.

Bizarrely, never owning a credit card will negatively impact your credit rating.

[socialdemocrat]

I know this is a thing in the US, but in Norway where I am from it doesn’t matter. Nobody gets a credit card here improve credit rating. I doubt people do they in most of Europe.

When somebody does a credit check on you they don’t get a score, only a remark on whether that person has done any negative with respect to their credit worthiness. Thus there is really only the negatives which count.

[tigershark]

In U.K. it definitely helps your credit score.

[GoodbyeMrChips]

Except we don't have a "credit score" in the UK.

Credit reference agencies instead report credit history.

The difference is a subtle but very important one, as it allows companies to assess your individual circumstances, rather than base decisions on an arbitrary score.

The above misunderstanding is so commonplace that the Redit UKPersoanlFinace sub had (has?) a bot explaining this on every UK post mentioning 'credit score'. Here "credit scores" are instead a marketing gimmick launched by credit reference agencies to get consumers to subscribe to monitoring services. The 'score' they give is meaningless.

https://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2021/06/martin-lewis-cred...

[ryanlol]

It works exactly like this in the US too. The numbers shown to consumers are not what big financial institutions base their decisions on.

By the same logic credit scores don’t exist in the US either. It’s just an approximation, your bank still makes their own decisions.

[fomine3]

Credit "score" isn't exist here in Japan, but higher age and zero credit history is bad because they can't be distinguished to bankruptcy person.

[tazjin]

I don't think that's really true outside of the US.

[stuaxo]

No, it's true in the UK.

I had this issue, and had to get a credit card and buy stuff on it for a year... basically without using credit you may not have a credit rating.

I always lose my cards and have to get them replaced, so have been back on just a debit card for a few years now.

[j_mo]

That's odd, I got a mortgage approved at 19yrs old, in the UK, with no credit usage/history whatsoever. I had a credit card but I'd held it for about 3 months at the time, and have never used it to this day.

Only since then have I actually had anything on my credit report (monthly broadband payment, phone contract, monthly car insurance payment because I didn't want to keep paying the whole 3k up front every year after moving out, etc) and despite that the score has remained unchanged.

[cjrp]

What was the loan to value though?

[chanc3e]

Can second this.

I had to get a credit card as mortgage got denied because my credit record didn't exist. Three months after the card, I got approved.

This is despite me earning an extravagant wage relative to my age for over a decade and never missing rent/utilities/council tax.

Bad system.

[b112]

I think this is being misstated by GP.

It isn't that a lack of credit card hurts your credit rating, but that a lack of any credit hurts your credit rating in Canada or the US.

There are other ways to get an initial credit rating than a credit card, although I agree that this is the path most easy, and chosen by many to get that first rating.

The method I employed, was to buy a car and had a parent cosign. I made all the payments, and this was enough to kick start, and give me at good credit rating.

[scaryclam]

The issue isn't not having a credit card, it's never having used any credit to create a good credit history. Setting up a few direct debits should work in lieu of getting a credit card.

[mbg721]

The way this works in the US is nuts. I had to get a parent to co-sign the loan for my first car (or else they wouldn't lend me money at any rate), but then I spent a year paying a monthly fee to borrow my own money with a "secured credit card" and instantly I'm good for 40 grand, apparently.

[BenjiWiebe]

That's not how it works in the US currently. You go through that process to get your first credit card, yes, but you do not get approved for $40k. My first card was $500. My best one now (with excellent credit score) is $5k IIRC.

If you got approved for $40k, there's something else funny going on.

[effie]

Isn't it completely rational from the lender standpoint? First they make sure you will be profitable for them (involve other people who can be milked), then they offer you money and hope you can't pay back on time.

[mbg721]

I mean, maybe, but it didn't work; I'm one of those deadbeats who makes all the payments before they're due.

[gifnamething]

Expecting someone to lend you 6 figures when you've never displayed any ability to repay 2 is far more bizarre.

[egman_ekki]

Maybe you displayed the ability to not go into debt unnecessarily, which could be also a signal of financial ability. Getting into debt just to demonstrate you can pay it off is a bit like having to catch a virus so that the doctor can tell you you're healthy once you're done with it.

But it's true that in the era of negative interest rates, only silly people don't owe money.

[another-dave]

I guess using the analogy — your doctor won't tell you "you've a great immune system" if you've never caught a bug at all. Maybe you've a really weak immune system, they just don't know.

Not going into debt unnecessarily is a great thing, but it's not a data point in your favour, it's the absence of a data point.

[maccard]

A credit rating basically isn't considered for a mortgage in the UK. They will check a report, and maybe request you pay outstanding debts (I was asked to clear my CC balance before completion both times), but unless you have a fraud marker or are bankrupt it won't affect you. Mortgages are secured on the asset, so it's far less risky than a personal loan of 5x less - the bank can seize the asset and force the sale of the home (and that difference in risk is reflected in the difference in borrowing rates).

[chanc3e]

My experience is they do indeed dig into your credit report and will approve/deny based on it. Not sure where your information to the contrary comes from?

https://www.which.co.uk/money/mortgages-and-property/mortgag...

[carnitine]

They explicitly mention a report. It’s just the number rating which is irrelevant.

[TheOtherHobbes]

Most UK CC T&Cs state explicitly "If you have a home, we will go after it if you default." Personal loans have similar recourse.

Neither are truly unsecured. It just takes longer than an outright repossession because it takes two or three court claims instead of just one.

The debt collection industry relies on this, and regularly forces sales of property to pay back CC and other debts.

So CCs are disastrous for people who can't pay their debts. Not only are the interest rates extortionate, but for lenders they're almost as safe as a secured loan. And because of the high rates they can be considerably more profitable.

[swarnie]

Such a broken system.....

I have to spend everything on a credit card, then when i get home from shopping 45 minutes later go and pay it off using a debt card.

Its so unfriendly for the consumer.

[cjrp]

I've not seen a credit card where you can't automatically pay the full balance by direct debit each month. You do still have to do some maths (actual balance = current account balance - card balance) but I don't worry about it not being paid off.

[adav]

Why not rely on direct debit to pay the full balance?

[swarnie]

Poor management on my part, i'd rather know its done and keep a watch on my spending day to day.

[scatters]

Which demonstrates that you in fact are bad with money, so the system is working as intended. If you don't trust yourself with day-to-day spending, why should a lender trust you with a loan representing months or years of income?

[stuaxo]

Same here, it's unnecessary overhead.

[mnw21cam]

It's more correct to say that never having any credit facility negatively impacts your credit rating. I have a credit card now, but several years ago I didn't, and I had a perfect credit rating, by dint of the multitude of other credit agreements that I had for the general running of my life, like mortgage, telephone, internet, etc.

[retube]

Not in the UK

[gambiting]

>>one for receiving money,

What do you mean debit card for receiving money? In what sense?

>> Automated payment from the 1st one to the 2nd one

Again, I have absolutely no idea what you mean by that. Payment from a debit card to a debit card? What?

[toyg]

I guess he's trying to compartimentalize so that, if the spending account is compromised and depleted, the main-income one is untouched.

Seems like a lot of work to do what CCs do automatically. I guess the upside is that crazy spending is impossible (well, if you make sure to forbid negative balances on the spending account) and it's impossible to accrue interest.

[oarsinsync]

> well, if you make sure to forbid negative balances on the spending account

I'm unaware of a UK bank that will let you do this, so...

[tazjin]

Monzo. It's the default in fact, since in order to get an overdraft you need to do a credit application.

[oarsinsync]

There's a difference between having an arranged overdraft, and being able to have a negative balance (also known as an unarranged overdraft).

Monzo's own help pages explicitly state that your balance can go into the negative, because offline debit card payments will not be rejected. They'll also gladly take you into the negative if you owe them money (e.g. through a Monzo Plus or Premium sub, or use their Flex service).

Search Monzo help for "Unarranged Overdrafts".

As far as I'm aware, there is no UK bank that will guarantee they will reject all payments and never let you go into a negative balance on a debit card transaction. This is also a profit centre for them, so there's little motivation to actually do so.

[gambiting]

I'm with Barclays and Lloyds, and neither can go into negative(well, technically they can I suppose, but it's extremely hard to do. Any debit card or direct debit transaction will just get declined if it's about to go below 0).

[baq]

it is possible if a terminal accepts a transaction without connecting to the payment processor (small, contactless transactions can do that).

[kalleboo]

Multiple bank accounts, each with it's own associated debit card

[Hamuko]

If you only have a bank account for receiving money, then you don't really need a debit card for that bank account.

[simonh]

I take it they're separate accounts.

[ljm]

You can basically just sign up for an account with Revolut, Monzo, or Starling and use it purely for spending.

Keep your primary account for getting paid, and for covering bills, then load up the second account with play money for the month.

I know a few people who do this.

I just use an AmEx account but it's a little frustrating that you can't set a spending limit on the card.

[ahoka]

Yeah, that makes no sense?

[c16]

The flip side to this is using something like an Amex which offers insurance, points, business lounge access and much more. Set up the card with diret debit (much like your automated payments) and never spend above what you can afford.

You now have perks, points, insurance, consumer protection and still zero worries.

[stuaxo]

It's pretty expensive to have an Amex card, I had one for a bit, but ended up not really using it so the £ they wanted seemed like a rip-off in the end.

[maccard]

There are many amex cards which don't have any fees, they even have a filter for them on their website [0]

https://www.americanexpress.com/uk/credit-cards/all-cards/?i...

[nixass]

Amex is terrible card in EU. High fees, many places rejecting it, I see no real reason why to use Amex over Visa or Master/Maestro

[maccard]

The link I shared is a list of cards from Amex that don't charge any fee. Anecdotally the number of places that reject my personal amex is very close to zero (there's one cafe enar me which doesn't take it).

> I see no real reason why to use Amex over Visa or Master/Maestro

Cashback/rewards, and it's accepted on Amazon in the UK after this year is a really good reason to use it over Visa at least. Maestro is non-existant in the UK. Maybe mastercard is a better choice, but I carry two cards _anyway_ , so one might as well be an Amex, and the second should be a mastercard?

[tigershark]

1.25% cashback.

[iso1631]

Mine's free, and they pay me cashback every year (which is of course mainly paid by companies like tesco and amazon as part of the fees)

[MomoXenosaga]

You are paying for these "perks" and no I don't need insurance when I'm buying an electronic toothbrush from Amazon thank you very much.

[chrisseaton]

> You are paying for these "perks"

Everyone is paying for the perks, since prices are the same for everyone, but only the people with a credit card are getting them.

You're paying for their perks every time you buy with a debit card - it's madness to use debit.

[pandaman]

Unless you are getting a discount for paying with a debit card, you are paying for these perks too.

[skeeter2020]

not typically unless you carry a balance. The merchant pays regardless if you use a credit or debit card, only the rate changes.

[refurb]

You could just automate payment of your credit card bill and get all those benefits plus more consumer protection.

[pittmajp]

What about all the free money you're leaving off the table in miles and cash back? I've had a credit card for about 3 years, and while it isn't much, I've never paid a dime in interest and I'm up roughly $800.

[nly]

Perks on credit cards in the UK are almost non existent because the fees are so low compared to he US. Historically the EU regulated to crush credit card transaction fees.

That said, I do get annual cashback of 1% on one of my cards.

[cjrp]

Cashback perks aren't great, but the airline credit cards are quite good if you'll definitely use the miles.

[navbaker]

We use a card that gives generic points instead of airline miles on each dollar spent and those points pay for our vacation lodging each year.

[ahoka]

Big corporations giving people free money sound kinda unbelievable, don't you think? They must actually make money on card holders for this to be profitable. The obvious way is that some people will overdraw sooner or later, the other is that people with credit cards simply tend to spend more (some say about 10-15%). The average credit card debt in the USA is more that 6000$.

[vel0city]

The "average credit card debt" is a bit difficult to really measure. That isn't necessarily the amount of interest bearing credit card debt which IMO is the real concern.

I've have some credit card debt, none of it carries any interest. When I buy appliances or furniture I usually take the interest free financing despite having the ability to pay. Why pay a few grand today when you can spread that out interest free for 2 years and let that value appreciate? I would have lost out on tons of money if I had sold investments up front to buy those goods. So instead of getting rid of all that money a year ago, I got 30% gains in the market.

[ryanlol]

> you're spending your own money

I can’t even begin to imagine how you could see this as an advantage. It’s really not.

[Blackstone4]

Don't most people do this with a credit card they pay off most months? This is what I do plus credit cards give more protection than debit cards.

I have the majority of my net worth invested at one of my brokers and I tend to hold minimal cash in my bank account...better to be invested than hold cash these days.

[tigershark]

How is this better than having a single credit card that gives you automatic protection and insurance on everything that you buy without having to think to stay under your self imposed limit otherwise you have to manually top up the card with the amount that you need to spend?

[effie]

You can set it up more easily in Europe, getting a credit card is not as easy here.

[dustinmoris]

> can't be overcharged, can't go below zero,

...and can't get a mortgage and buy a house because you have no credit score.

[stuaxo]

This happened to me (for clarity: in the UK) and I had to get a credit card and use it for a year.

No idea where the card is now, but the credit systems seemed to become aware of me after that.

[simonh]

You don't have to have running shoes to be able to run. I haven't owned a credit card for 15 years and my credit score is just fine.

[dustinmoris]

That's not how it works in the UK though. You need to be having credit in order to build up credit score.

[simonh]

Sure, I've taken out loans, had several mortgages, multiple bank accounts, paid all my utility bills. All of that can influence your credit scores.

It is possible some people could have so little credit history that having a card for a while might be beneficial. I don't know enough about the system to be sure, so maybe I was being a bit flippant, for which I apologise.

[sildur]

That only applies to the US.

[hackeraccount]

It's wildly overstated in the US. Having a CC and not paying it off in a timely manner definitely affect your score but the difference between having a card and not having one isn't as big as people make out.

If you have proof of income you're going 90% of the distance.

[dustinmoris]

Nope, that also applies in the UK.

[ethbr0]

Do UK credit cards typically offer cash back?

In the US, 2%+ on all purchases (either directly or through points) is pretty standard. Going up to 5%+.

But I know this can be very different in other countries. I believe Japan has little to no incentives?

[kmlx]

amex does this in the uk

[Bobylonian]

My mom has exactly the same system with her two debit cards and I have not taught her that - she is naturally smart. So proud of her and you too ;) Cheers!

[baq]

90% of this is what a credit card already is... the only tricky thing is the limit which might not be as easily configured, but it certainly can be.

[iso1631]

Your plan might work with a pre-loaded credit card

[jdiez17]

> what's not to like?

Well, the predatory business model, for one. The reason your credit card company can offer you "better consumer protection" and other benefits is because they count on a percentage of people not paying off their debt in time (and thus making more money out of them).

Also, I personally wouldn't want "better consumer protection" to be mediated by a private company. That should just be the default.

[fredoralive]

In a UK context, the "better consumer protection" comes from the Consumer Credit Act 1974, not the banks goodwill.

(Although the time my debit card did get stolen somehow, my bank did refund out of goodwill presmably becuase they didn't want to lose a customer).

[rkangel]

You actually get much better payment protection from a debit card than people are generally aware of. In the UK, the difference between a debit card and credit card is actually not very big due to legal protections (although you might have an easier time claiming off your credit card).

[HatchedLake721]

You sure? Section 75 is not equivalent to requesting a chargeback.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-7...

[PeterisP]

" the time my debit card did get stolen somehow, my bank did refund out of goodwill" - IMHO not, depending on when that happened, the bank would not have a choice because of EU payment service directive which extends similar (but not exactly the same) protections to all payment instruments including debit cards.

[chrisseaton]

> Also, I personally wouldn't want "better consumer protection" to be mediated by a private company. That should just be the default.

You’re confused - in the UK the better consumer protection with a credit card is the law. On debit cards it’s at their discretion.

[stillicidious]

Visa debit also has transaction fees, often fixed to the same as credit for small vendors. Avoiding credit cards does not fix that.

[ericd]

It's not necessarily predatory, so much as they take a couple percent of everything that flows through them. Also, they don't take the hit on chargebacks, the merchant does. Those two things cover purchase protection just fine without relying on people getting hit with high interest rates.

[iampims]

And merchant add 2% to their base price which amounts to everyone not using a credit card “subsidizing” the benefits to all credit card users.

[robjan]

The cost of handling cash is similar to handling a credit card transaction

[Symbiote]

And the cost of handling a debit card transaction is less than either of these.

In bits of Europe where it's allowed (like here in Denmark), it's not unusual for shops to add a percentage to the total for payments by local credit card, business credit card and/or foreign credit card. I haven't yet seen a shop with a different price for cash vs debit cards.

[refurb]

No, it’s not like at some point merchants said “oh yeah, let’s add 2% to account for credit card processing fees”.

The appeal of credit cards is higher volume - more purchases because people can put it on credit, it’s more convenient, etc. That’s why you’ll see even roadside fruit stands offer credit card payments.

Plus stores are in competition with each other (to varying degrees). Some will choose to absorb the entire 2% or a part of it since, in their mind, it’s a net positive trade off.

It’s like saying a 5% increase in property taxes are just passed through as a rent increase. It all depends on the market. The right answer is something between 0-100% is passed through.

[gambiting]

You must be an actual anomaly, like yeah, what you are saying makes sense, but you are the only person I've ever heard about who does that here in UK. Everyone I know, me included, just uses debit cards for purchases everywhere including Amazon. I have a credit card but I very very very rarely use it for anything.

[sparks1970]

UK here, I use credit card for almost everything:

1. (As everyone says) consumer protection. I can dispute a charge to a CC and am not standing out the cash (unlike debit)

2. Debit transactions don't have any inherent limit. The bank might flag a very large transaction but once a debit transaction is underway it can't be stopped. I had > £10k stolen from my online account via a debit transaction and though the bank made good, still, bad taste.

3. Most important if you are young - using (and paying off) credit card will improve your credit score which helps you when you do need the credit.

4. Delayed payment. Even when you clear your debt every month you're still getting the benefit of 30 days free credit on your purchases. In our current savings-rate environment this is somewhat moot but anyone who travels for work or has significant work expenses that they have to wait to get reimbursed for will find this a major feature. Lending your employer money really sucks.

5. Rewards cards. These have gone crappy over the last decade but if you are in a role where you have significant work expenses or where you put most of your expenditure through the CC it can be worthwhile to hunt around for and switch cards for deals. Spending £1000 at Amazon/year on a debit card will get you exactly £0 in rewards. Even 1% cashback would be worth having.

The only downside to CC's I see is that some people can't trust themselves with credit - they'll spend up to their limit and get into a spiral of debt. If you don't do that, they're better than debit cards in my opinion.

[gambiting]

Just to address those points.

1) I've been able to dispute payments on my debit cards without any issue, they were always reversed instantly by the bank. Maybe I've been lucky, I don't know. And for the "bank is liable for your purchases" thing - that doesn't apply to anything under £100 either.

2) That is a stupid limitation of UK banks, not debit cards in general. I have a bank account in Poland and for the debit cards with that bank I can set individual limits for internet transactions, terminal payments, CNP(card not present) transactions as well as ATM withdrawals - with separate daily/monthly/temporary limits. Why British banks don't implement this is unfathomable to me.

3) I suppose, I have no comment on this really.

4) yes, but then you need to remember to pay it off and how much exactly, which is a bit of a pain if you have your daily spending mixed in with bigger purchases that you want to pay off over a longer period of time.

5) Again, personal experience - other than 0% interest on purchases, never had a credit card in the UK with any rewards whatsoever.

And yeah, it's not about downsides of CCs - it's just that when I pay for my daily shopping with my debit card it's out of my account, I know how much I have to work with at any given time, done. As I said elsewhere, I can't be arsed to work out it if my spending is spread across multiple accounts and different forms of credit.

[chrisseaton]

> never had a credit card in the UK with any rewards whatsoever

I used to fly to New York in first for free once a year on my reward points before COVID.

[andrewshadura]

I was going to comment "mBank, isn't it?" but then realised that in such a competitive market as you have in Poland probably every bank's implemented this already.

[gambiting]

Hahaha, yes, it's mBank :-)

[chris_overseas]

I'm in the UK and always prefer to use a credit card whenever possible. It automatically gets paid off every month so I never get charged any interest, I get points worth minimum 0.5% back for all purchases, and benefit from the fairly strong UK consumer protection laws here.

The only exception where I'd prefer a debit card is in very rare cases when there's an additional fee for using a credit card. That's usually for large sums and/or international payments though, in which case I tend to use a specialised FX company or Revolut. My normal debit card is literally the last card I ever use, when all else fails or is more expensive.

[toyg]

Uk here, I use credit cards for everything. Used wisely, consumer credit is incredibly useful. Example: bought a 4k motorbike, dealer finance or savings drawdown would have cost me hundreds; slapped it all on an 18-months 0% card and am now slowly repaying it on my own schedule, at no extra cost, while happily riding the thing.

[sbisson]

Exactly; with a credit card paid off monthly by direct debit and an interest paying current account, you're earning interest on your cash and not paying any on your purchases. What's not to like getting what's basically free money with a little bit of no-brainer arbitrage?

[toyg]

> an interest paying current account

What is this unicorn you speak of...? :) jk, I know some exist, I've just been irrationally faithful to a bank that probably does not deserve it anymore (coop)...

(But I keep my savings in an account that offsets against my mortgage, so I'm effectively getting a similar deal in practice by not accruing interest on that.)

[gambiting]

Yeah of course, I do the same thing - when I said I use mine "very rarely" I meant that I use it for things like buying laptops or other expensive things, to use the 0% interest period. I just don't know anyone who actually uses it for day to day purchases from amazon and such, I just use my debit card for that.

[88]

Using a credit card in this way could be negatively impacting your credit rating.

You can be dinged both for having credit and not using it in a given month, as well as exceeding a certain threshold (~10%?) of your credit limit.

[gambiting]

I have two credit cards, one of them I haven't used in 5 years at all, the other I use as described, and according to Credit Karma my credit rating is 690 our of 700. We just remortgaged the house too without any issue.

So yeah, I don't think I care too much about my credit rating at all, it doesn't seem to be affected by this in the sligtest.

[88]

Fair enough if it doesn’t impact your day to day, but it will definitely impact others.

Also worth noting Credit Karma uses TransUnion which is only one of the big three rating agencies, and arguably the least important compared to Equifax and Experian.

[reallydontask]

>Everyone I know, me included, just uses debit cards for purchases everywhere including Amazon.

This is just as anecdotal as GP or indeed myself. I never use a debit card and don't know anybody that uses them other than for getting cash out of an ATM

[leoedin]

How old are you? People using credit cards in my circle (early 30s, London) are firmly the minority. If we split a bill in a restaurant it's all debit cards. Maybe there's one person with an amex or something.

[screwt]

Do you check everyone's card when you split the bill? What makes you think the others are debit rather than credit cards?

For info: the debit & credit cards from my bank look almost identical. The only difference is one says "credit" in small black text. My credit card handles exactly like my debit card in terms of tap-and-pay etc. I just wouldn't use it to take out cash from an ATM, but then I can't remember when I last needed to do that.

[throwaway287391]

> I have a credit card but I very very very rarely use it for anything.

But why? The credit card is strictly better isn't it? I thought the main reason people used debit cards was that they got one automatically with their checking account and just never bothered to apply for a CC, but that's not the issue for you.

[gambiting]

I don't know, when I use my debit card it just goes out of my main account, done, don't have to worry about it. On my credit card I'll have bigger purchases I made some time ago and I'm working towards paying them off - if I put all my monthly purchases there too, I'd lose track of how much of that I need to pay off monthly and how much I've got left on my main account.

And yes, it can be easily worked out but I guess I just can't be arsed. And for purchases under £100, credit cards offer no additional protection whatsoever, so for my daily shopping I'd just be making my life more difficult for no reason.

[cameronh90]

Nowadays with open banking, apps are starting to be able to aggregate all your accounts and credit cards into a single pane of glass. It isn't perfect yet, but it's getting there.

[lmm]

> And for purchases under £100, credit cards offer no additional protection whatsoever, so for my daily shopping I'd just be making my life more difficult for no reason.

They offer better protection against fraudulent charges though? If your card gets skimmed it doesn't matter whether you were paying £5 or £5000.

[yulaow]

I don't know in Uk or USA, but in the rest of europe there is no difference at all in protection against fraudulent charges between a credit and a debit card.

[cameronh90]

There's no difference with fraudulent charges in the UK, as far as I'm aware, but when you buy a product or service on credit, we have a law saying the credit provider and retailer are both liable.

This means for example if you buy a flight and the airline goes out of business, your credit card provider will need to refund you. Also if goods are faulty, you now have two possibilities to get your money back - and the credit card companies are usually more amenable.

[gambiting]

I never understood this point - my debit card has been charged fraudulently couple of times, all it always took was a quick call to Barclays, 2 minutes on the phone with the agent and the charges were reversed and the card cancelled.

What exactly can a credit card do better than this?

[lmm]

You called and the money was available for you to spend within 2 minutes? When it happened to me I had to go in and fill out a form and wait about a month (not easy on a student budget).

[Xophmeister]

Another UK credit card user chiming in. I hardly ever use my debit card.

[cameronh90]

"I didn't even know you could use a debit card,"

Is there ever a situation that you can use a credit card but not a debit card? There are occasionally places that only accept debit cards, but I think the only time I've had a debit card refused was when hiring a car.

[stevesimmons]

The reason for that is the car rental company does a "pre-auth" that ties up some of your credit limit (reduces your "open to buy" amount), in case you damage the car or don't return it with a full tank of petrol.

Hotels will sometimes do the same for a room night plus potential minibar charges.

The pre-auth gets released when you make the payment at the end of the car rental period.

[AnssiH]

"Pre-auth" works the same way for VISA/MC debit and VISA/MC credit.

The amount is (temporarily) deducted from my available balance when I use a debit card, just like it is deducted from the credit limit when I use a credit card.

[maccard]

About 10 years ago a hotel I had prepaid wouldn't take a debit card for a damage deposit, but that's the only time in my life I've been asked for credit instead of debit.

[andrewshadura]

At some point Uber only accepted credit cards, but not debit cards.

[imwillofficial]

So you can’t grasp that most other people might do things differently because you’ve done it one way for a long time?

[mrec]

I'd call that a radical interpretation of the text.

[oarsinsync]

I am like you. I'm pretty sure we are the minority. Most people I know don't trust themselves with credit.

[ovi256]

The fact that you, one individual uses CCs for everything does not contradict the facts that he gave.

[MomoXenosaga]

Credit card fees?

[aembleton]

Get a fee free credit card and use direct debit to pay off in full each month.