[CapricornNoble]

How are the unvaccinated supposed to put food on their table when they are being kicked out of the military, fired from their place of employment, or told that they must comply even if operating a self-owned-work-from-home business?

These people are being forced out of regular society into an underclass that will have to operate in a grey economy to survive.

[cletus]

Again this demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the origin, meaning and reality of "apartheid".

Black South Africans didn't choose to be black. They couldn't choose to be white to escape the segregation, loss of rights and brutality.

No one is being held down and forcibly vaccinated. Even in the military, which is pretty strict about this, your choices are to comply or to face disciplinary procedures, possibly including being discharged from the military.

That's a choice.

Side note: military service members already have to comply with all sorts of medical requirements including shots. Why Covid is being singled out now is the only interesting part to this.

[CapricornNoble]

>>>Again this demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the origin, meaning and reality of "apartheid".

The etymology of the world is separateness or "apart-hood". We can debate whether the concept requires immutable physical/racial characteristics, but in most Western minds the word "apartheid" is more common to communicate concepts of enforced second-class-citizen status than others, such as in India's caste system, or burakumin here in Japan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin

>>>No one is being held down and forcibly vaccinated.

They are simply being forced into unemployment, and whether they eventually starve due to their lack of income, well, that's not YOUR fault, right? It's the most cowardly, passive-aggressive way to eliminate undesirables.

This is like Israel saying they aren't actively murdering Palestinians, so what's the problem? Meanwhile they maintain a blockade that prevents import of basic stuff that has at times included wheelchairs, tin cans, livestock, and construction materials. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip#Lim...

>>>Side note: military service members already have to comply with all sorts of medical requirements including shots. Why Covid is being singled out now is the only interesting part to this.

Because the tons of other shots that we get (including that stupid, painful anthrax booster) don't have anywhere near the rate/risk of side effects that come with COVID vaccination!

And when we're exposed to stuff that DOES negatively impact our health, it has often led to the government getting sued for compensation afterwards. Examples: Agent Orange, Iraq "burn pits", USS Ronald Reagan and Fukushima radiation, etc...

Upon further research, you can get VA Benefits for side-effects linked to older, bad batches of anthrax shots: https://ptsdlawyers.com/anthrax-vaccine-presents-long-term-e... So the government recognizes that it screwed up giving us dangerous vaccinations in the 90s and is compensating veterans, and that's for something with a LOWER risk profile than COVID vaccination. But for COVID, the entire adult population of the country is being told to either comply or join the breadlines.

>>>That's a choice.

Yes, and sooner or later, as people feel increasingly suppressed by the government, they will simply stop debating and "make the choice" to resort to violence. En masse. And I don't think the bulk of the people who are oh-so-smug-and-confident about the need/importance for this current trend of government authoritarianism fully appreciate what that means.

[glogla]

> How are the unvaccinated supposed to put food on their table

Get vaccinated?

Unlike minorities, they can actually do that, you know.

[CapricornNoble]

Ah yes, the classic position of all authoritarians: "My Way or the Highway!"

And what do you tell the minorities who view vaccination mandates as yet another example of government oppression, under which they've already suffered?

[glogla]

I think it's quite brilliant! Unvaccinated people hurt others by spreading the disease to the vulnerable and clogging the hospitals (at much higher rate than vaccinated). Turning this around and making it so that their unvaccinated status is hurting them too, seem like a great balancing act.

And talk is cheap. I remember article about how police unions in whatever US city claimed that 10 000 police officers will quit if they have to get vaccinated. The mandate went through and the number who quit was 36 or so.

If less than 1 % of antivaxxers really mean it, when push comes to shove, that means we can still save the world.

But I also have no patience anymore, so I'm not the best role model of a delicate approach to those things.

[CapricornNoble]

>>>And talk is cheap. I remember article about how police unions in whatever US city claimed that 10 000 police officers will quit if they have to get vaccinated. The mandate went through and the number who quit was 36 or so.

I wonder what city this would be? Maybe LA? Chicago had to pause the mandate for law enforcement due to the union backlash.[1] New York lost ~9,000 public workers (not all police though) due to their mandate.[2]

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/02/police-vacci...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/01/new-york-cit...

>>>when push comes to shove, that means we can still save the world.

Except that the vaccine efficacy falls off of a cliff over time, so unless all 7 billion of us are gonna get boosters every 3 months, what is the real plan to "save the world"? If COVID is here to stay, at some point we need to add "COVID patients" to our baseline stats that drive our understanding of ICU bed requirements, and then just return to normal. At the very least "Asia normal" where people just understand to wear masks most of the day in crowded places.

[throaway46546]

The reason only 36 were fired is because they had thousands apply for "religious exemption". In the end they either accept them as exempt making the mandate moot or they will end up having to terminate them.

[nuerow]

> * Ah yes, the classic position of all authoritarians: "My Way or the Highway!"*

Isn't that the core tenet of anti-vax militants? That not only are they entitled to refuse to follow the most basic health and safety precautions but also that they, somehow, are entitled to put at risk everyone around them because they feel like it?

And their sense of entitlement runs so deep that anyone around them not playing along with their sense of entitlement warrants personal attacks such as the one you've just mounted?

Pray tell, if you honestly placed any value on personal freedom how come you place a higher value on your personal whims than the health and safety of everyone around you?

[CapricornNoble]

>>>Isn't that the core tenet of anti-vax militants?

No their core tenant is "My Body My Choice."

>>>That not only are they entitled to refuse to follow the most basic health and safety precautions but also that they, somehow, are entitled to put at risk everyone around them because they feel like it?

There is a baseline level of risk that society tolerates, consequences be damned. That's why we un-banned alcohol, and why motorcycles are (thankfully) still legal.

>>>personal attacks such as the one you've just mounted?

Actions have consequences, right? Take an authoritarian position, get called out for being an authoritarian. If being identified as an authoritarian feels like a personal attack to you, you can always chose to not espouse authoritarian policy implementations.

>>>Pray tell, if you honestly placed any value on personal freedom how come you place a higher value on your personal whims than the health and safety of everyone around you?

"you you you you"....You seem to be assuming that I'm unvaccinated. I'm not. Nor do I have a COVID-risky lifestyle. I couldn't care less about lockdowns ending since I don't go out anymore anyway. I go to work (largely with vaccinated coworkers), I go to the supermarket/gas station/convenience store, I go home. I wear masks in public at all times. The only things I miss are Friday Night Magic and easy international travel. COVID has been "business as usual" for the lifestyle of many introverts.

I'm anti-mandate. And yes, my value equation places higher utility on personal freedom than health & safety. I assess that kowtowing to overbearing government intervention will calcify over time as it so often does, and trend towards misuses of power that will be a net loss for all of us. As it so often does.

"You can vote your way into Communism or fascism, but you have to SHOOT your way out of them."

Here's a better compromise in the interim: if hospital ICU capacity falls below 10%, the hospital has the right to refuse unvaccinated patients seeking admission for COVID treatment, in order to retain capacity for non-COVID-related conditions (both vaxxed and unvaxxed patients). BUT....I want to see this policy extended to the obese as well. If your BMI is over 30 and you have a heart attack...you get told "No Vacancy".