[CapricornNoble]

Ah yes, the classic position of all authoritarians: "My Way or the Highway!"

And what do you tell the minorities who view vaccination mandates as yet another example of government oppression, under which they've already suffered?

[glogla]

I think it's quite brilliant! Unvaccinated people hurt others by spreading the disease to the vulnerable and clogging the hospitals (at much higher rate than vaccinated). Turning this around and making it so that their unvaccinated status is hurting them too, seem like a great balancing act.

And talk is cheap. I remember article about how police unions in whatever US city claimed that 10 000 police officers will quit if they have to get vaccinated. The mandate went through and the number who quit was 36 or so.

If less than 1 % of antivaxxers really mean it, when push comes to shove, that means we can still save the world.

But I also have no patience anymore, so I'm not the best role model of a delicate approach to those things.

[CapricornNoble]

>>>And talk is cheap. I remember article about how police unions in whatever US city claimed that 10 000 police officers will quit if they have to get vaccinated. The mandate went through and the number who quit was 36 or so.

I wonder what city this would be? Maybe LA? Chicago had to pause the mandate for law enforcement due to the union backlash.[1] New York lost ~9,000 public workers (not all police though) due to their mandate.[2]

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/02/police-vacci...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/01/new-york-cit...

>>>when push comes to shove, that means we can still save the world.

Except that the vaccine efficacy falls off of a cliff over time, so unless all 7 billion of us are gonna get boosters every 3 months, what is the real plan to "save the world"? If COVID is here to stay, at some point we need to add "COVID patients" to our baseline stats that drive our understanding of ICU bed requirements, and then just return to normal. At the very least "Asia normal" where people just understand to wear masks most of the day in crowded places.

[throaway46546]

The reason only 36 were fired is because they had thousands apply for "religious exemption". In the end they either accept them as exempt making the mandate moot or they will end up having to terminate them.

[nuerow]

> * Ah yes, the classic position of all authoritarians: "My Way or the Highway!"*

Isn't that the core tenet of anti-vax militants? That not only are they entitled to refuse to follow the most basic health and safety precautions but also that they, somehow, are entitled to put at risk everyone around them because they feel like it?

And their sense of entitlement runs so deep that anyone around them not playing along with their sense of entitlement warrants personal attacks such as the one you've just mounted?

Pray tell, if you honestly placed any value on personal freedom how come you place a higher value on your personal whims than the health and safety of everyone around you?

[CapricornNoble]

>>>Isn't that the core tenet of anti-vax militants?

No their core tenant is "My Body My Choice."

>>>That not only are they entitled to refuse to follow the most basic health and safety precautions but also that they, somehow, are entitled to put at risk everyone around them because they feel like it?

There is a baseline level of risk that society tolerates, consequences be damned. That's why we un-banned alcohol, and why motorcycles are (thankfully) still legal.

>>>personal attacks such as the one you've just mounted?

Actions have consequences, right? Take an authoritarian position, get called out for being an authoritarian. If being identified as an authoritarian feels like a personal attack to you, you can always chose to not espouse authoritarian policy implementations.

>>>Pray tell, if you honestly placed any value on personal freedom how come you place a higher value on your personal whims than the health and safety of everyone around you?

"you you you you"....You seem to be assuming that I'm unvaccinated. I'm not. Nor do I have a COVID-risky lifestyle. I couldn't care less about lockdowns ending since I don't go out anymore anyway. I go to work (largely with vaccinated coworkers), I go to the supermarket/gas station/convenience store, I go home. I wear masks in public at all times. The only things I miss are Friday Night Magic and easy international travel. COVID has been "business as usual" for the lifestyle of many introverts.

I'm anti-mandate. And yes, my value equation places higher utility on personal freedom than health & safety. I assess that kowtowing to overbearing government intervention will calcify over time as it so often does, and trend towards misuses of power that will be a net loss for all of us. As it so often does.

"You can vote your way into Communism or fascism, but you have to SHOOT your way out of them."

Here's a better compromise in the interim: if hospital ICU capacity falls below 10%, the hospital has the right to refuse unvaccinated patients seeking admission for COVID treatment, in order to retain capacity for non-COVID-related conditions (both vaxxed and unvaxxed patients). BUT....I want to see this policy extended to the obese as well. If your BMI is over 30 and you have a heart attack...you get told "No Vacancy".