[_3u10]

It also presupposes such systemic disadvantages exist. Not sure why so many people from other countries immigrate to places that are so obviously systemically biased against them.

Or why when institutions such as Harvard actually do systemically discriminate against Asians it’s routinely ignored by the woke crowd.

Can anyone explain to me why Asians despite having some of the highest scores and GPAs have the lowest rate of admissions to some of the wokest institutions in America?

Why is the difference in incarceration rate between men and women or the police shooting rate not presented as systemic discrimination?

[Zababa]

> Why is the difference in incarceration rate between men and women or the police shooting rate not presented as systemic discrimination?

I've tried multiple time the argument "if we have quotas in top positions like board of directors, high-prestige public institutions, we should also have them in bottom positions. Where are the inclusivity programs for prisons?". The answer that I've always received was "these are totally different", as in you end up in a board of directors due to chance and privilege, but you end up in prison due to your own actions.

While this argument is a bit stupid and not really constructive, I find it surprising how easily it reveals that people apply very different standards to different social issues. It seem that for most people, the mechanism which makes men dominate society is totally different from the mechanism which makes men be at the bottom of society. My explanation for that is that the glass ceiling comes with a glass floor.

I personally haven't found other people talking about things this way, but that may be me not researching enough. I also find it unfair that some people would be in this "glass box" just because of how they were born. But I'll admit that I find it troubling when I hear people talking about "breaking the glass ceiling" all the time, which seem to benefit mostly people already well-off in society that want event more (at least for positions like board of directors), while leaving people to rot in prison because they're male.

[_3u10]

Men likely just commit more crimes. I do think there is huge bias in sentencing though. You have to know how to interact with police tho, I think many men's intuition on how to do this is lacking.

Lawrence Summers got in a lot of trouble discussing this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Summers#Differences_b... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variability_hypothesis

[Zababa]

> Men likely just commit more crimes.

I think the thing that makes men commit more crimes is the same that makes them be at the "top". Thank you for that link about the variability hypothesis, that seem to be what I'm thinking about.

[nasmorn]

Committing crimes without getting caught is also how you can become a board director. There are other ways too obviously. Mostly wage theft, anti competitive crimes or some embezzlement. The kind of crimes privileged people would commit.

[Zababa]

Fair point, though I have honestly no idea of the percentage of board directors that have committed white collar crime.

[_3u10]

It's zero or near zero. Committing crimes generally bars one from being a director, especially public companies. White collar crime sentences generally preclude serving on any board until their dues are paid to society. Even personal bankruptcy can preclude being a director.

[beaconstudios]

Your arguments betray that you don't actually understand what systemic disadvantages are. It's not used to mean intentional discrimination; it means that the way our society is set up results in discriminatory outcomes even if nobody is actively being discriminatory.

To address your gender disparity in incarceration example: yes, that is a systemic problem. Men commit more crime than women, and if you dig into the reasons why, it's going to relate to things like lack of opportunity to compete and succeed through legitimate means. People in poverty stricken areas have much less of a chance to succeed through legitimate economic means so the ambitious turn to crime. That's a systemic problem.

[evancox100]

> Men commit more crime than women, and if you dig into the reasons why, it's going to relate to things like lack of opportunity to compete and succeed through legitimate means.

Pretty sure that the main driver here comes down to testosterone and men’s overall higher levels of impulsivity.

[orand]

Bingo. Read the recent book T: The Story of Testosterone, the Hormone that Dominates and Divides Us by Carole Hooven. It covers this and related issues in great scientific detail. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1250236061/

[beaconstudios]

yeah sorry I should've said explicitly that men are also more likely to be aggressive and competitive, so given the constraints of poverty, are more likely to go into crime to fulfil those needs.

[eru]

> Can anyone explain to me why Asians despite having some of the highest scores and GPAs have the lowest rate of admissions to some of the wokest institutions in America?

You mean they have some of the lowest rates of admission when corrected for GPA? Or lowest rates in some absolute sense?

> Why is the difference in incarceration rate between men and women or the police shooting rate not presented as systemic discrimination?

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AcceptableTarget...

[_3u10]

Basically, the GPA / exam scores required for Asians to be accepted is far higher than any other group.

To exclude them Harvard gives Asians low personality scores. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/us/harvard-asian-enrollme...

[judge2020]

> It also presupposes such systemic disadvantages exist.

But it would be incorrect to presuppose that absolutely none exist, which is why they have a culture of reviewing and examining such a possibility.

[_3u10]

Of course. I think the vast vast majority of people abhor racism and discrimination in the US and Canada yet our countries are described by the woke as bastions of this kind of thought when the vast majority of the evidence points to it being two of the most welcoming and accepting of differences.

[zapita]

> Can anyone explain to me why Asians despite having some of the highest scores and GPAs have the lowest rate of admissions to some of the wokest institutions in America?

Because of legacy admissions, also known as “rich white kids skipping the line in spite of low GPAs”. There’s nothing “woke” about Ivy Leagues…

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/23/elite-school...