I think anyone complaining about the price is missing something. Anything produced in small quantities will be expensive and I wouldn’t even assume they themselves thinks this product is gonna be profitable. I suspect a lot of the projects TE puts out is more about showcasing their design language to then be able to do collaborations with other brands like IKEA who can take a product to a broader market.
In other words their products are like business cards sold to a niche category of people who like products that look like a collaboration between Dieter Rams and Simone Giertz.
Actually a laser or waterjet has to pierce all those arrays of holes and slots, which take time, which is what you charge for. Plus deburring and powdercoating. At only 1mm thick the pierces will go fast, but prices will not be cheap until you're punching out low thousands on a CNC turret punch. Source: I own and operate a waterjet and frequently design similar parts.
I get what you're saying. But as a consumer, I don't care what the production costs. I care what the product itself costs and what I'm getting out of it vs what similar products cost and what I get out of those.
The people buying Mini-ITX cases for custom PC builds are typically hobbyists, and the value they derive from these cases (which are expensive across the board, it's a niche low-volume market) is not the same value you or I get from buying a (relatively) cheap ATX tower and throwing whatever parts into it. If you go looking for "similar products", I guarantee that you will find some very expensive cases indeed.
Not every product is for every consumer. This case is already sold out, so apparently somebody wants it.
My Phanteks Evolv Shift Air 2 mini-ITX case was about 120 € (with one 140 mm fan) and I don't think it was that expensive. And it looks really nice + fits beefier components.
The Evolv Shift Air 2 is a cool case, but (as you say) it is on the large side for Mini-ITX cases and therefore likely has much more mass appeal, since the smaller a case is the more difficult (and rewarding for hobbyists/enthusiasts) it will be to spec out components that fit and have adequate cooling.
Just comparing it to some other popular Mini-ITX cases, 23 liters for the Evolv Shift Air 2 is nearly twice the volume of the NZXT H1 (13 liters), and far in excess of the Dan 4 (7 liters) or the Velka 5 (5 liters). Especially the latter two cases are extremely challenging to build in, and at 8.5 liters the "computer-1" is arguably most comparable to that segment despite its GPU length limitations. It's not a put-whatever-you-want-in-it case, and that makes it a niche offering.
I'm not going to argue that there's no TE tax attached here, especially since (unlike similar cases) it doesn't include a PCIe riser or other electronic components, but it's not way out of range for its market segment.
Well, maybe you as a consumer can value the effort this guy made and pay it. I mean, not every one of your consumer decisions has to be based on the lowest price possible.
Exactly. The PC case market is actually really competitive these days. It seems like new high quality cases at a good cost are coming out on a monthly basis at this point. Teenage Engineering makes cool stuff and this case looks nice, but I don't think I would ever spend this kind of money on a case.
Also value-oriented builders probably wouldn't want to use the ITX form factor given they're always more expensive than mATX with a on-par feature set at best. ITX builders likely are not price conscious.
mATX cases can also be quite small (e.g. Fractal Node Define 7) but you get 2 more RAM slots, can use ATX PSU, and can get bigger coolers so not have to resort to price AIO.
I'm not sure that is still the case. I have an OP-Z and lurking forums for that device reveals tons of posts about build / hardware issues. Luckily my secondhand unit only has SOME broken components but it's pretty widely known as an incredibly fragile device with many design flaws
There's plenty of products made with plastic that holds up well, even in the most harsh environments.
They decided to make the OP-Z out of plastic and it didn't hold up well. It's the fault of their poor design, or at least the type of plastic they decided to use, not the materials.
Not saying OP-1 is a bad product, but it is VERY expensive, and one could argue that the aesthetic of the OP-1 is what makes it a good device.
For something like a PC case, there's already a LOT of options in aesthetics, so asking for nearly $200 for a case (that, as pointed out, you have to assemble yourself!) is a bit much to swallow. $200 gets you basically the highest end case in ANY look that you want. Perhaps not this 'unique', but you have a plethora of options.
I agree that their stuff is high quality concept-wise; at the same time their products are not very durable. E.g. OP-1 is prone to failures; knobs break, ports and keys stop working. In case someone likes high quality and durable products, I recommend doing careful research before buying from this brand.
They're lots of fun. (I have the rythmn and robot ones). Its weird you could do this on a cell phone now, but the separate device kinda works well.
of course the optional case is about half the cost of the device.. but I never bought one and haven't had a problem.. and runs on regular aaa batteries!
Its not for computer people it's for teenage engineering people. There's a big difference.
Not to be too mean about it (I do own an op-z) but there's a subset of synthheads who will buy whatever they put out.
The price is about double what i expect anyone else to sell it for so that is about on par with most of their stuff.
The most interesting thing to me is that they don't seem to give you a reason to want to buy it over some other mitx case. Its just "we made a small computer case it's small!". They're marketing to their own fans with this.
It's not a PC it's a case and it was designed for their own team computer needs which is presumably a nice looking case for a high end build to run CAD software.
The number of PC components that look nice, not the designed for gamers RGB aesthetic is miniscule, so they're definitely going to do alright with sales of this.
Not just assemble but actually bend/form the corners yourself.
Without the benefit of seeing it in the flesh, I fear either I would struggle to get accurate bends (which would annoy me for the rest of it's life) or the case has been made flimsy so it bends easily.
While the OP-1 is a unique musical instrument (sold a $700 10 years ago, now $1200 new, god only knows why...), these designers will make you pay a premium for most of their products, aside from the low quality pocket operators.
I own one. It's amazing. Don't knock it till you try it! It's a $700 toy, not a radio. It works well in their ecosystem if you have other TE stuff, It's hours of enjoyment playing with it. It's well worth the money for the fun (I even used it to get off alcohol, every time I wanted to drink I was usually bored so I played with it every time I wanted to drink), unfortunately the build quality is awful.
I agree with everything you are saying except that pocket operators are actually quite neat. But yeah, everything else is actually really pricey and actually has a lot of reliability problems. You see a lot of people paying that $1200 for the OP-1 and it just breaks and TE doesn't support their product either.
It looks like you at least heard of this product before and yet you completely misrepresent it for some reason. This is not just a radio, it’s a music instrument of sorts: it continuously records what you hear on the radio and allows you to manipulate it in real time (rewind, loop, time stretch).
Niche product you’re buying for the design and aesthetic, 200 seems very fair to me.
I’ll never understand the complaining about case prices, it’s big enough to be a piece of furniture in your house, why wouldn’t you pay more for something that looks and feels premium or has a design you like.
Teenage Engineering had previously been victims of their own success.
They openly admitted that the reason why their prices are so eye-wateringly high — at least with another product of theirs, the OP-1 synth emulator — is because they can’t produce in high enough supply, and they got fed up with seeing scalpers / touts buying up all their stock and selling it on at twice the price.
My read is that there's a lot more competition now. The M1 just isn't as competitive with (for example) the NR200 being so similar, 1/2 the price, and produced by a major manufacturer/system integrator.
It's not the SFF case that I'm using now, but it's the one I used the longest and was certainly the most versatile. If I hadn't decided to build my first custom loop in the Meshlicious, I'd still be using my M1 today.
On one hand mini ITX cases tend to come with a price premium if they're anything more than the most basic plastic case.
But on the other, usually you get excellent sound absorption, clever mounting solutions etc. At first glance this is an objectively bad case by the usual measures of high-end mini ITX cases.
This is another functional display piece for a designer's desk, just like the Playdate.
It's overpriced, but in a similar way to how a clay brick with Supreme stamped on it goes for hundreds of dollars.
Teenage Engineering is literally selling a dock with a pen holder for the thing.
I feel like this is supposed to be a well-laid trap of a question, but c'mon... technically Amiibo are for unlocking in-game extras, what's my experience with those for them to end up relegated to a designer's desk?
It's not a "trap". If you say something like this:
> This is another functional display piece for a designer's desk, just like the Playdate.
Then you'd better have something to back it up. And unless you're one of the few people who've actually used a Playdate (who actually had largely positive impressions IIRC) then what basis in fact, or even in subjective experience does your comment actually have?
Seems to me the answer is none. And that's worth calling out.
The fact that it literally turns into a desk clock instead of turning off by default isn't something?
The fact the creators of it are letting you put it on double duty as a pen holder isn't something?
Are you joking?
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The problem is you're getting upset someone dared to imply this amazing device is going to end up unused...
As if Teenage Engineering of all companies didn't realize a lot of people will treat these like an interactive desk ornament. So they made it look striking. And maybe thought of a cool way to display it.
Maybe like, a stand. With a pen holder.
As if something that's intentionally niche in functionality and divergent in design is never released in limited quantity to double as a statement piece... (Not a chance: https://www.kanyewest.com/)
I know HN users do enjoy purposefully acting like they lack basic context on things they're braying about so they can turn around and go "Cite your sources! How dare you assume I know what I'm talking about!"... but how like how does anyone with any idea what Teenage Engineering is as a company and un-ironically think:
"What blasphemy! To imply their items are aesthetically pleasing enough to become ornaments rather than be heavily used!"
If you agree that you have no useful opinion on the Playdate's practical merits as a video game console, then maybe you should edit your original comment to say what you now claim to mean. Making this explicitly negative value judgment about the functionality of the PC case:
> But on the other, usually you get excellent sound absorption, clever mounting solutions etc. At first glance this is an objectively bad case by the usual measures of high-end mini ITX cases.
Directly followed by a direct comparison to the Playdate (emphasis mine):
> This is another functional display piece for a designer's desk, just like the Playdate.
Yeah, you can absolutely buy much cheaper cases. I think this type of thing is to appeal to people who like to look fashionable. The same group that forks over a couple of extra hundred bucks per build on RGB accessories.
In other words their products are like business cards sold to a niche category of people who like products that look like a collaboration between Dieter Rams and Simone Giertz.