[mimon]

If you think holding a CS degree in any way correlates with being able to function as a professional developer... Boy have I got news for you. Companies conduct these interviews because holding a CS degree is almost worthless as an indicator of ability.

I suggest you sit in on some of these interviews if you get the chance, you will very quickly see what an absolute train wreck they are when you get someone with the right paper qualifications who just doesn't know how to code at all.

[crispyambulance]

> ...what an absolute train wreck...

I am sure they can be, but there are many accounts of talented people who initially bombed these things in a big embarrassing way, NOT because they lack ability, but because they never practiced for the test and didn't know what to expect (yes it happens).

This can happen to folks who learned on the job until they outgrew their job and decided to leave. They suddenly find themselves doing an "obstacle course" technical interview gauntlet that focuses on things that they just haven't had to think about for a long time (or ever). I believe talented enough folks can get through it if they can focus and study for a while (and accept the humiliation of failing big at first). It's not an infinity of subject matter, nor is it rocket science. I think if someone loves the work enough they can get themselves through it.

[b20000]

exactly this. and practicing for a few days is not enough. if someone who is experienced and can write software needs to spend months training for this, the interviews are broken.

but, i disagree with the solution you suggest. the only solution is to refuse and instead of wasting 3 months training with no guarantees, build a product instead and sell it.

[bradlys]

> but, i disagree with the solution you suggest. the only solution is to refuse and instead of wasting 3 months training with no guarantees, build a product instead and sell it.

Because being a software engineer means running your own business… right.

Just like surgeons should start their own hospital before getting hired. Makes total sense…

[b20000]

surgeons are not dealing with this problem. they get their degree, go through some mandatory on the job training, then get hired. nobody ever asks them later on to do some "surgeon leetcode" to prove they can do their job.

[pedrosorio]

Hopefully:

- clearly incompetent surgeons never graduate

- any surgeon who can’t do the equivalent of basic “surgeon leetcode” would be painfully obvious to their colleagues on the job and would struggle to continue employment as a surgeon

[cloverich]

Getting that degree and the mandatory training is FAR more work than a few months of leet code grinding. The leet code thing really really sucks. But it is light years easier than and less tedious than the hoops you need to jump through to become a physician, let alone a surgeon. A more comparable comparison would be if literally every programming job required that you passed multiple algorithm tests, some of which took years to study for, before you could even apply.

[crispyambulance]

> instead of wasting 3 months training with no guarantees, build a product instead and sell it.

I totally sympathize with your sentiments, but building a product and selling it ALSO has NO guarantees.

These folks that "learned on the job" often were hired into completely different roles from SWE but ended up doing it anyway and they're not making anything close to ~300K FAANG money. So, it's not THAT much of a stretch to blow a good number of months grinding leetcode if a job upgrade is a possibility.

Ultimately, it's a matter of finding the right place. Often that means using your professional network and getting referrals. If the gauntlet can be bypassed through connections, that's a good thing for everyone.

[b20000]

after building a product, you will have generated IP that you own. after doing leetcode for a few months, you have gained nothing.

[b20000]

maybe where you are from CS degrees mean nothing. in western europe you don’t get a CS degree unless you actually have both the academic chops and can build working software. i completed many projects while still at the uni.

also, no other white collar job has these sorts of ridiculous demands. and no, engineering does not pay disproportionately well.

finally, most of these interviews test if you solve a very specific programming problem in under a minute. the only way to succeed is by having already solved that particular problem before. so the interviews don’t test if you are a good computer scientist. they test how far you are willing to go to get the job.

[mimon]

Unfortunately for you I live, work, and do tech hiring in Western Europe, so I'm just going to go straight ahead and call you out on your weird geo-superiority bs.

Western European grads are no better or worse than elsewhere. Tech jobs do pay disproportionately well (not as much as the US but still well), and I assure you other white-collar fields such as law, finance and medicine have plenty of ridiculous demands and barriers to entry - often much worse than the ones we see in tech.

Honestly if you are as good as you say you are you should be happy to just walk into any tech company you like, spend a couple hours showing off, and be set for life.

[b20000]

if you think you can walk into any tech company and show off for a few hours and be set for the rest of your live, you must be nuts.

[pedrosorio]

What is your objection here?

[pedrosorio]

> most of these interviews test if you solve a very specific programming problem in under a minute

You’re supposed to be solving it as you go, most of the time while interacting with your interviewer. Certainly not “in under a minute” unless your concept of “leetcode interview” is some kind of rapid-fire “I tell you the problem you describe a sketch of the solution as quickly as possible”.

I will also echo the other commenter’s opinion regarding “CS in Western Europe”. Not only do you have people graduating who can’t build working software, you also have a wide range of skill levels such that some companies want to hire from the top of the distribution and not just “any CS grad who can build software”.