[echelon]

I still don't get it. Apple is a company people cheer for, yet it continues to accrue substantial and dangerous power.

They don't let you repair devices, install your own software, or run your business unfettered. They spy on your files. They coddle and report to authoritarian governments.

This monopoly is lauded and praised as it continues to get bigger and encompass everything one does.

I don't understand it.

It hurts to watch this.

[deergomoo]

You're not wrong, but you're making the classic Hacker News mistake by assuming that the average person gives even the slightest crap about any of that stuff—or if they do, that they are directly affected by it.

Apple makes (mostly, with some fairly large asterisks attached) reliable devices, with all the software most people want to run. Most people do not sell apps and therefore are not familiar with the bullshit that is App Store policy. And many of their customers are based in the west, where their stance on privacy at least _seems_ substantially better than their big tech alternatives. For those based in China, coddling with an authoritarian government is just business as usual.

The most important factor to most people, myself included for the most part, is that they make devices people enjoy using.

[thinkingemote]

Brand and personal investment of time and money in that brand means people will defend their investment.

It's why you can detect so much anger and pain in anti apple threads, because people's personalities are wrapped up with the brand.

A consumer doesn't just get one apple device, or just use one apple app, they buy the watch, phone, desktop, laptop, subscriptions, walled garden store, etc, and it works. It's a family which is hard to leave because you like it there.

[spideymans]

I really can’t criticize Apple for making an ecosystem (walled garden) of devices and services that people genuinely enjoy being in. I just lament that there really is no other comparable parallel ecosystem to compete with them, particularly from open source vendors.

[FearlessNebula]

Samsung is probably the closest: laptop, tablet, phone, watch, headphones all work together. They have their own software suite as well.

[hvidgaard]

And it's not even close.

[dev_tty01]

First, I don't think your comment is relevant to this discussion, but I guess that has never stopped anyone on HN. People complain about Apple maps, and the article is about how much work Apple is doing to improve their maps.

As to many of your other points, they are just wrong. I do repair my own devices, I do install my own software and I do run my business unfettered. I can't speak for others, but your assertion is not consistent with my own experience.

Which files do they "spy" on? They do offer on-device services like automatic photo tagging, rule based email filtering, etc. I can use those or not. I can grep and search my files, so I guess Apple (the OS) is "looking" at my files. Is that different than any OS? Basically any OS vendor has access to your files. You either trust it or you don't. Apple's business model is not built on selling my data to advertisers so I choose to trust them. You are welcome to make another choice.

As far as coddling to authoritarian governments, yes they follow the laws of the countries they operate in. So do any other companies that operate in those countries. That stinks, but that is the reality. Companies can either abandon markets or follow local laws. Which of these is the long term good? Lots of valid arguments both ways, but there can be no argument on one point. Operating in country X requires following the laws of country X.

Look, they are no saints, I get that. But they build great devices that do everything I want them to do. Of course there are people that have bad experiences, but overall Apple's customer satisfaction numbers are extremely high and people keep buying their devices. That's not an opinion.

To your central point, yes, as Apple offers more services that I find useful they do accrue more power. Which large companies that offer useful services do not accrue associated power? I choose to align with the company whose business model is not built upon selling me and my data to third parties. Eyes wide open. There are other good choices and I am happy for other people to make different choices. I don't feel pain for them.

[tuyiown]

I don't understand why you focus on apple. The problem is accros the entire mobile space, the frightening thing is not the power of apple, it's the fact that _alternatives are not much better_

[matheusmoreira]

Yeah, it's extremely frustrating. It's like everyone's efforts to preserve our freedoms and control don't matter. All progress is undone because Apple's offerings are just that much more comfortable. It's a constant uphill battle against billion dollar companies who are always light years ahead of us in terms of software and strategy.

It sucks.

[amelius]

> It's a constant uphill battle against billion dollar companies who are always light years ahead of us in terms of software and strategy.

Yes, and these companies will use open solutions whenever it suits them. Some of these companies were even initially built on open solutions.

It's an asymmetric battle.

[weikju]

They make stuff people want to buy and overall devices that people can use to get things done. Unpopular opinion around here I know.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

Ever seen folks decked out in Harley-Davidson, NASCAR, or MOPAR gear?

Never underestimate the power of good branding.

I’m not an Apple fanboi, but I don’t regret choosing it as my main development platform.

[kemayo]

> continues to accrue substantial and dangerous power.

> They coddle and report to authoritarian governments.

There's an interesting tension here. One strand of complaint is "Apple is too powerful", and the other is "Apple isn't ignoring laws".

If you're worried about the accrual of power to megacorporations, maybe you'd not like for them to be picking and choosing what laws they'll obey based on their own whims?

[avree]

I have never needed to repair an Apple device, because they work well for the duration of their lifetime in my experience. When I have occasionally needed repairs, Apple does a fine job of servicing my product for a reasonable price. I can install every piece of software that I want on my Mac, and every business/startup I've worked at has used Macs as the default hardware so I'm not so sure about your "they prevent you from running your business unfettered" claim either.

tl;dr - the stuff you're worried about is probably moot to the average consumer, which is why Apple continues to make sales.

[ClumsyPilot]

"tl;dr - the stuff you're worried about is probably moot to the average consumer, which is why Apple continues to make sales."

That's a very poor argument, it is easy to sell something toxic to the average consumer.

This applies to all areas where product is complex, banks can literally ruin their life with one financial product.

Known loansharks and drug dealers never have shortage of customers, they neber seem to learn.