[thermin]

There's a lot of doom and gloom here; let's see if it really got that bad.

>You need a PD charger and not a QC charger...

Impossible, all USB-C QC chargers are also USB PD chargers.

>into the correct usb port to charge the laptop

The port is either marked (everything but MacBooks) or doesn't matter (MacBooks, pretty sweet).

>buy an original charger for your laptop

Good! Now you have a USB PD charger that covers your laptop and also every device you own that's lighter in wattage. Less chargers to pack when travelling :)

>you're back at where we were 20 years ago

No, not at all. 20 to 10 years ago all charging ports (including on cameras, phones, everything) were barrel plugs of slightly different diameter; everybody's cranking out their own boxy black chargers putting out maddening variations on the same ~20V for laptops and 3-5V for smaller devices, you can't share chargers between devices, can't always find the replacement, especially if the device is on the older side. Buying a device with a different connector - bam, old charger goes to e-waste (or e-bay).

>but it won't charge. You need a fast charger...

EU makes it mandatory to say on the packaging what wattage the device needs, and what wattage the chager can provide. Granted, the laptops are not covered by the EU proposition in question yet, but have patience, we don't now have those 240W chargers for nothing :)

[Ginden]

> were barrel plugs of slightly different diameter

Some of them had the same diameter, so accidentally plugging 12V to 5V port could fry your device.

[thermin]

True! I literally own two identical-looking (to the most minute details of the plug itself) barrel plug chargers (one for the vacuum, the other for the elliptical trainer). One is 18V, the other is 9V, both 500mA

At least I'm not afraid that the 65W USB PD charger will fry my phone lol

[function_seven]

I think I can one-up you :)

Many years ago I had two Linksys devices. A router and an access point. They were both that blue and gray chassis style. (Like the original WRT54G, except these both predated that model).

They had the same size barrel connector. I was fumbling around under my desk getting everything connected when I let the magic smoke out of one of them. Turns out I gave the 9V unit 18V from the other’s wall wart.

That may also have been the day I learned the phrase “magic smoke”

[thermin]

TIL the phrase "magical smoke" :)

Never were much into electrical engineering, to my own chagrin.

[citrusybread]

should absolutely be illegal. usually barrel plugs are coded for each voltage.

I can one up you. Verilux sells a "happy light" SAD lamp thing, still sold at Costco, which uses a mini-USB plug, running on 19V 300mA or something.

Yeah. How the FUCK does the USB Forum not shut that down?

[thermin]

OMG, have you tried to charge it from a sane 5V charger?

[OJFord]

> >into the correct usb port to charge the laptop

> The port is either marked (everything but MacBooks) or doesn't matter (MacBooks, pretty sweet).

From https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/363337/how-to-find...:

> TLDR; If your MacBook Pro runs hot or shows a high % CPU for the kernel task, try charging on the right and not on the left.

[unethical_ban]

While that is a frustrating bug/design flaw, it doesn't negate the fact that you can charge the laptop from any port.

[OJFord]

Sure, I suppose my point is just further along the lines of 'even if all the ports are the same, they don't necessarily work the same' since it turns out that even if they seem to/say they do, there can still be such differences.

IMO if it's to be optional to implement the 'receive' side of USB-PD (or QC? Whatever it is) then it should use an extra pin, so a PD cable physically can't fit in a non-PD port. And the ends opposite, so that the PD-pin-having transformer plug won't fit a non-PD cable.

(I don't really want that though, I'd rather it was just required to support it. So it's all the same and we can properly live the one-connector dream.)

[thermin]

That's quite insane, thanks Tim Apple.

[SketchySeaBeast]

Not taking exception to any of your points - honestly, I think that while this new USB world is confusing, it is much better than it was in the day of the barrel plugs, especially not that everything is becoming USB-C. Just taking exception to this one point:

> The port is either marked (everything but MacBooks) or doesn't matter (MacBooks, pretty sweet).

Except that even when there shouldn't be a right choice, there still is:

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/309802-charging-a-macb...

[dspillett]

Direct link to the SO post and answer that the extremetech page paraphrases, for those who don't consent to being tracked left/right/centre and would prefer not to click hundreds of times to say so: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/363337/how-to-find...

[yarcob]

Summary for people who don't want to click a link:

Some MacBook Pros get very hot when you use the USB-C ports on the left side for charging.

[SketchySeaBeast]

Yeah, that is a better link for the technical stuff, but you seem to imply it's clean when it comes to tracking and it's obviously not.

[dspillett]

Fair point, I could have made the effort to make that clear, but it is far far far less _un_clean if you care at all about such things.

Two clicks to opt-out of everything¹ compared to tens, some of which include needing to visit the parter separately to opt-out there, and even then it is not complete because some simply marked “this partner does not provide an opt-out”. ExtremeTech: welcome to my DNS blacklist.

[¹] assuming you trust it to actually opt you out properly, of course

[cromka]

> Except that even when there shouldn't be a right choice, there still is:

Except this is an issue with a specific Apple product, not the USB spec as this thread implies.

[SketchySeaBeast]

Yeah, it's not the USB specs or cables fault, but they said it didn't matter on some devices and used the example of a MacBook, where it still does.

[dionian]

Plus USB-C doesn't require a correct orientation, you just put it in and it always fits. Maybe underrated but to me it's worth a lot...

[david422]

I have some USB C chargers that only charge in 1 orientation. I don't know if it's my phone, or the cable, or what, but for me this isn't true.

[kps]

Same is true of Apple's Lightning. It looks symmetrical, but electrically it isn't.

[cromka]

> Same is true of Apple's Lightning. It looks symmetrical, but electrically it isn't.

Have you every used an Apple product? Because if you did you'd know that it doesn't matter which direction you plug it in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_(connector)

"The male Lightning connector is symmetrical (same pins on either side), so it can be inserted into a female Lightning port in either orientation."

[jaywalk]

From an end user's point of view, there is no difference in the orientation. But from the device's point of view, one orientation has pins 1-8 and the other has pins 8-1. It's up to the device to figure out which is being used. This is still considered symmetrical though.

[kps]

It's not, though.

https://www.techinsights.com/blog/systems-analysis-apple-lig...

[cromka]

The context, however, is important: the OP responded "same as in Lightning" to this:

"I have some USB C chargers that only charge in 1 orientation"

[jaywalk]

I get the point you're trying to make, but the connector is electrically symmetrical: "made up of exactly similar parts facing each other or around an axis"

[thermin]

Well, that's something barrel plugs had going for them way before data connectors caught up :)

[OJFord]

And then some - hadn't really thought about it until your comment, but somehow we regressed from infinite orientations (well, in that plane) to one, and are now all excited about having two...

Are there any example of barrel-style connectors with >2 pins, i.e. coaxial barrels? Similar is the 'jack' (3.5mm and such) but with split regions along a single pin rather than concentric rings of course. I wonder why such designs aren't more popular/explored (that I'm aware of anyway) for multi-pin data connections?

[ajsnigrutin]

There were barrels with three..

eg lenovo, two charger generations ago:

https://i.imgur.com/Wn4EM33.png

But usually the inner one was only connected via a resistor, to tell the device the wattage of the charger (but could be used by a bunch of 1 wire protocols instead.

[JohnFen]

From how often this is mentioned by people who love USB-C, I sometimes wonder if I'm the only person who never had an issue with correct orientation.

[dreamcompiler]

> Impossible, all USB-C QC chargers are also USB PD chargers.

But the reverse is not true: All USB PD chargers are not QC chargers. Some are, but not all. I admit this is not a huge problem because QC is fading away and it merely means that some older equipment won't charge with a newer charger, but the issue does exist.

[ajsnigrutin]

> Impossible, all USB-C QC chargers are also USB PD chargers.

You have a lot of USB-A QC chargers, and you just take a usb A -> C cable. [0]

> The port is either marked (everything but MacBooks) or doesn't matter (MacBooks, pretty sweet).

https://p3-ofp.static.pub/fes/cms/2021/07/01/5q6w49cnwh2ka55...

So... do I tell my grandma to plug it into the "weird robot"-symbol port (5), or the "danger, high voltage" one (6)? It fits into both.

> No, not at all. 20 to 10 years ago all charging ports (including on cameras, phones, everything) were barrel plugs of slightly different diameter; everybody's cranking out their own boxy black chargers putting out maddening variations on the same ~20V for laptops and 3-5V for smaller devices, you can't share chargers between devices, can't always find the replacement, especially if the device is on the older side. Buying a device with a different connector - bam, old charger goes to e-waste (or e-bay).

This is not really true... Some laptops maybe... Lenovo had a square one ( https://www.amazon.com/Converter-Charger-Adapter-ThinkPad-Un... ) for example. Phones had all the custom ones...

ericsson examples:

https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Cable-Ericsson-C510i-C702i/dp...

https://www.navigation-accessoires.com/en/sony-ericsson/p-se...

Either way, you brought one device + one cable, and you know where to plug it.

Yes, from an average tech nerd perspective, this might be better, because people know and remember what to use where, which protocol their devices use, and which port they have to plug it in. Normal users don't.. and if it fits, they use it like that. If they buy a custom charger for their laptop, they won't use it to charge their phone, because they know their phone charger won't charge their laptop, even though everything fits.

I'm not saying it's all bad, but dealing with several older relatives, and stuff that fits and doesn't work is making it a pain in the ass, especially with stores selling stuff (eg ikeas https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/askstorm-40w-usb-charger-dark-g... ) that works but doesn't charge if under heavy use.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Charge-Charger-Portable-Adapter-Folda...

[542354234235]

> This is not really true... Some laptops maybe... Lenovo had a square one

The exact shape of the port is clearly not the point of their statement. It is that you had specific, one use, variations of chargers that only worked for one laptop and were trashed when you got something new and were very difficult to get a replacement or additional charger for. Whether they were barrel or square isn’t the point.

> If they buy a custom charger for their laptop, they won't use it to charge their phone, because they know their phone charger won't charge their laptop, even though everything fits.

But most people handled it fine if they had a tablet, phone, and a few other random devices with micro USB. For the average person, moving to the semi standard micro USB was a net win, even though some people would try trickle charging their phones with old, low power usb chargers. Just because grandma can’t figure out what she is doing, doesn’t mean the actual average user won’t quickly figure out that their USB-C charger will work for anything less what the charger was rated for. Your laptop charger will charge your tablet, phone, and extras like headphones. Your tablet charger will charge your phone and headphones, etc. that is a good enough solution for most people, and simple enough most people will be fine. Knowing you can travel with 4-5 USB-C devices and only bring your laptop charger to charge everything is much better.

[thermin]

>You have a lot of USB-A QC chargers, and you just take a usb A -> C cable

Why would you assume it would work? Just because the connectors fit together? Both my computer monitor and my TV have two HDMI input ports. Should I fault the HDMI protocol (and any connector standard where server and client sides are physically identical) that I can't daisy-chain them?

My grandma has a microUSB Android tablet and a microUSB feature phone. I set up for her a dual USB-A charger and two identical microUSB cables that are always plugged in, so she can use either one or both. I don't quite see the problem with the USB-C setup either: get several high-powered chargers for her so that she can use whichever one.

But I get it. The times really did have changed; one piece of information - the wattage of the charger - that was hidden from the consumer is now reified: all chargers fit, but only some of them are powerful enough. Fortunately, it's mostly a question of comparing integer numbers: my phone's 25W, and the charger is 30W - it fits! My laptop is 45W though, bummer. I should get a >=45W charger for it.

But for that nuisance we traded away the obnoxious burden of distinguishing between Pump Express and QuickCharge and Adaptive Fast Charge and Adaptive Super Fast Charge, between Lenovo thick or thin barrel plugs or yellow rectangle plug, between multiple generations of Apple laptop plugs, of insane proprietary connectors like Nikon's UC-E6, of having to power hubs externally (thank god for 15W minimum), of the anticonsumer pricing of the vendors' proprietary tech, and (fingers crossed) of the ridiculous mix and match approach Apple has to its iPhone and iPad lines.

It seems to be a good deal.

By the way, I fondly remember a Sony Ericsson K510i I had in high school :) That toothy connector was finicky as hell (something I'm reminded of by lower quality USB-C hubs).