[jeffbee]

Ah yes, most companies just buy batteries from Panasonic and shove them in their cars, but the galaxy brains at Tesla instead buy batteries from Panasonic and shove them into “custom modules” which is clearly materially different.

[kjksf]

Just to start, as of today Tesla is Panasonic's only automotive client. Panasonic talked recently about the need to get more auto clients for their cells but so far it's been just talk.

As to your dismissive "galaxy brains at Tesla": unlike Ford or GM or Toyota, Tesla does a lot of R&D in battery cells.

I know that because they are hiring tons of people for cell research and production: https://www.tesla.com/careers/search/?country=US&query=cell

I did similar searches in the past so I know that they've been hiring for cell research for years.

For contrast, despite GM claiming they make Ultium batteries, few months back I didn't find a single job post for cell engineering.

I also know that because Tesla has been sponsoring Canadian cell research lab led by Jeff Dahn.

This resulted in multiple patents awarded to Tesla.

Tesla also bought Grohman Engineering (which makes, among other things, robots that assemble battery packs), Maxwell (for their dry electrode technology) and a Canadian manufacturer of equipment for making battery cells.

Musk also talked how they work with every company that claims they have an improved cell technology and how they evaluate their cells.

There is no evidence that Ford or GM or Toyota made similar investments in batter cell and battery pack R&D and production.

[CyberRage]

Wrong. Tesla has custom designs from form factor to chemistry.

Panasonic was crucial at the begining with their own designed\made 18650. their role is shrinking fast

Tesla's expertise when it comes to batteries is unmatched in the auto-motive industry, no doubt about that.

Tesla is not using Panasonic at all for their new batteries.

[jeffbee]

Get a grip, Tesla fan. Your shares are doing fine without the reality distortion. People who buy cells from Panasonic directly are getting the exact same chemistry and form factor with which Telsa cars are equipped. Quoting from Tesla's own 10-Q filing, emphasis added.

"""Under our arrangement with Panasonic, we plan to purchase the full output from their production equipment at negotiated prices … Currently, we rely on suppliers such as Panasonic for these cells."""

Seriously, there is no shame in it. They are good batteries! They are made by Panasonic using Panasonic chemistry on Panasonic equipment, though.

[CyberRage]

You don't have to believe me but I don't own a tesla nor do I own Tesla stocks.

Tesla do have their own custom chemistry and doping, it is written all over the internet you're willing to read that.

TEsla has several patents and their own research group: https://www.scribd.com/document/440951044/Tesla-battery-pate...

https://www.scribd.com/document/424878572/J-Electrochem-Soc-...

just to name a few. to me you seem like a Tesla skeptic, unwilling to acknowledge their success

[jeffbee]

The patent and the chemistry you are trying to link to — by the way, Scribd is a scam, here is a link to the PDF[1] — is university research funded in part by Tesla.

1: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1149/2.0341813jes/pdf

Undoubtedly good chemistry research but doesn't have anything to do with the batteries that are actually in cars you can actually buy.

[CyberRage]

You're still trying to defend your position... sad.

Claiming Tesla is the same as VW which basically buys batteries and shoves them into existing chassis\frames, is a joke.

Tesla produces most of the worlds batteries:

https://www.mining.com/muskmobiles-running-rivals-off-the-ro...

In their own factories, which automaker has this level of integration?

Tesla has the best battery longevity metrics according to thousands of tested cars: https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-dat...

Tesla is the only company with vast\robust charging network: https://hbr.org/2021/01/how-teslas-charging-stations-left-ot...

Tesla is the only company seriously investing in their own battery facilities. boots on the ground, working facilities.

Now tell me how Tesla is just like any other player in the EV space again?