[TrispusAttucks]

This is a different argument.

You're talking about the unvaccinated masses of patients.

The NY mandate was for nurses who worked throughout the pandemic.

We could debate the merits of mandated vaccination for the general public but this mandate is putting a squeeze on healthcare workers which will likely contribute to a worker shortage that will not be without it's own collateral damage.

[virtuabhi]

At Houston Methodist, where 150 employees left from a work force of about 26,000 people, the hospital said that there had been little lasting effect on its ability to hire people. And when Texas was hit with rising numbers of Covid cases over the summer, the hospital found that fewer of its workers were out sick.

“The mandate has not only protected our employees, but kept more of them at work during the pandemic,” a hospital spokeswoman said in an email.

ChristianaCare, a hospital group based in Wilmington, Del., said on Monday that it had fired 150 employees for not complying with its vaccine mandate. But the group emphasized that over the last month it had hired more than 200 employees, many of whom are more comfortable working where they knew their colleagues were vaccinated.

From https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/29/health/us-hospital-worker...

[TrispusAttucks]

Thanks for your detailed response.

This is great news for the hospitals bottom line!

Not such great news for the hopeful mothers planning or already carrying a child who wouldn't wish their unborn offspring as a medical experiment. These are real people with real concerns. Not crazies who think there is a microchip in the shot. Studies on long term fetal impact are impossible with the mandated timeline.

If a woman has a pro-choice right to abortion, then it seems a pro-choice right to a medical injection is in order. The two points are logically inconsistent with each other.

Sincerly,

~ A Covid Vaccinated Citizen

PS. See below [1] for reasons why someone might question a fast developed medication.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fQ6JklHjBc

[lovich]

You have a pro choice right to not get injected. You don’t have a pro choice right to not get the vaccine, not get tested, and move about freely amongst others because you are now violating others bodily autonomy en masse by spreading disease.

If you aren’t fine with someone walking around firing a gun randomly in the air because the bullets “might” land on someone then I don’t see how you can be fine with someone walking around during a pandemic with no sorts of proof that they aren’t spreading the disease at a high rate.

Both behaviors are a not guaranteed to cause harm, but the likelyhood has risen high enough to warrant preventative measures

[TrispusAttucks]

I was under the mistaken belief that vaccinated people could still spread the virus. Thanks for the correction. Which begs the question. Who are we protecting? That group has chose to not be protected. The argument is circular.

Disclaimer: I support vaccination. I do not support authoritarian mandates in this case.

[lovich]

Vaccinated people can still spread the virus _if they have a breakthrough infection_.

Since they have a radically lower incident of infection compared to the non vaccinated, the rate of transfer of Covid for the two groups is in no way equivalent.

Thanks for the opportunity to correct your misunderstanding.

Disclaimer: I do support people’s right’s to make decisions for themselves. I do not support people foisting their negative externalities on the rest of society under the guise that their actions have no side effects.

[TrispusAttucks]

Enjoying this exchange!

A "breakthrough infection" is still an infection, No? It seems that sophisticated semantics are being used in media to veil underlying weakness in the arguments and premises and move the goal post.

> That group has chose to not be protected.

The side effects of people choosing not to get vaccinated is that they will get sicker because they choose not to get vaccinated, Yes?

It is not my business if they self-risk getting sicker, or if they consume to much sugar, or don't exercise enough, or sky-dive.

Surely you can see how this narrative becomes a circular self contradictory "double bind" [1] that could go on forever. It's a very fascinating way to indirectly exert control [2].

[1] A double bind is a dilemma in communication in which an individual (or group) receives two or more reciprocally conflicting messages. In some scenarios (e.g. within families or romantic relationships) this can be emotionally distressing, creating a situation in which a successful response to one message results in a failed response to the other (and vice versa), such that the person responding will automatically be perceived as in the wrong, no matter how they response. This double bind prevents the person from either resolving the underlying dilemma or opting out of the situation. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind)

[2] Double binds are often utilized as a form of control without open coercion—the use of confusion makes them difficult both to respond to and to resist. ((https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind)