[simorley]

Not to mention that if we are going to have a systematic collapse, it will be caused by the elites around the world and no "news" entity will gives us a heads up about it.

Remember that Trump was going to collapse the global system with his "war" against china? Apple and Microsoft have gained 2 trillion dollars in market cap since Trump. That's 2 trillion with a T. The media tells us there is going to be a collapse but people with money are betting that there will be significantly more global trade, even with china.

Who knows what they are actually talking about? Someone working at CNN or the monied elites?

[AnimalMuppet]

In a global collapse, people with the money often are also caught by surprise.

[simorley]

Only if the cause is external to the system - like an asteroid. If the cause is internal ( war, shift in global order, etc ) the people with the money are the ones causing it so they aren't surprised at all. Only the ones out of the loop perhaps will be caught by surprise.

[AnimalMuppet]

How many rich people, active in the stock market, got caught by surprise by 1929? How many rich people, active in real estate, got caught by surprise by 2008?

You say "causing it". They may be, but I suspect most of them aren't actively, deliberately causing it. So they can still be (and are) caught by surprise when it happens.

[simorley]

> How many rich people, active in the stock market, got caught by surprise by 1929?

When I wrote "elites", I wasn't talking about "rich people" in the common sense. I doubt many elites were surprise considering the 1929 crash happened because the elites decided to start ww2 - japanese invasion of manchuria in 1931.

> How many rich people, active in real estate, got caught by surprise by 2008?

Once again, I'm talking about elites. Not bernie madoff.

> You say "causing it". They may be, but I suspect most of them aren't actively, deliberately causing it.

Of course they are. The masses don't decide when to go to war, when to upset the global world order, etc. It's the elites.

> So they can still be (and are) caught by surprise when it happens.

Absolutely. When the catalyst is external to the system or they are the elites who are left out of the loop ( aka when on group of elites decides to turn against another group of elites ). Unless you think the man-made and controlled system is an organic and natural system.

Shocks to a man-made system can result from natural disasters or it can result from the elites themselves. In the former, it most likely will be shocked to the elites. As for the latter, it won't except for the out-of-the-loop elites.

[AnimalMuppet]

> I doubt many elites were surprise considering the 1929 crash happened because the elites decided to start ww2 - japanese invasion of manchuria in 1931.

First, how in the world did the Japanese invasion of Manchuria show that the elites weren't caught by surprise by 1929? I mean, you've listed two events, and one came after the other, but that in no way demonstrates that the elites had advance knowledge of 1929. You're going to have to demonstrate a link there, not just list events.

Second, the amount of influence that western elites had over Japanese foreign policy in 1931 was very close to zero. The amount of control that Japanese elites had over the western financial system was also very close to zero. So you're talking about disjoint sets of elites, which means that your "proof" is lacking in another way.

> Once again, I'm talking about elites. Not bernie madoff.

Yeah, sure. "It's not who you're thinking of, it's someone else." Some never-specified someone else, so that the claim can never be disproven. I notice that you don't name any of these "elites", just "not Bernie Madoff".

You're sounding more and more like a conspiracy-theory nut case. If you've got an actual case, you need to do a better job presenting it.

[simorley]

> First, how in the world did the Japanese invasion of Manchuria show that the elites weren't caught by surprise by 1929? I mean, you've listed two events, and one came after the other, but that in no way demonstrates that the elites had advance knowledge of 1929.

When a global war is planned, the money tends to flood out of speculative consumer goods because that money is needed to fund wars. Why do you think the markets collapse in 1929? Everything was running smoothly and it all crashed down just before the start of the greatest war in human history.

> Second, the amount of influence that western elites had over Japanese foreign policy in 1931 was very close to zero.

Japan has been a US "vassal" since the 1850s. We used Japan as an attack dog to protect our interests in china/east asia and of course to keep the russians at bay. If you are interested, go read about a bunch of black ships sailing into tokyo bay in the 1850s. Sure, Japan got off leash for a few years, but we corrected such "misbehavior" rather brutally. The idea that the "the west" had no influence over japan is laughable.

> I notice that you don't name any of these "elites", just "not Bernie Madoff".

I imagine the elites are people who I will never hear of. I don't know. The people who decide to sanction cuba, venezuela, etc. The people who decided to open trade relations with china in the 1970s. The people who decided to invade iraq. Certainly the people didn't decide any of it. Certainly madoff didn't either, but that's my assumption.

> You're sounding more and more like a conspiracy-theory nut case. If you've got an actual case, you need to do a better job presenting it.

What is "conspiratorial" about saying the elites set up any system - national or international. Who do you think set up the global order? Aliens? The people? Who do you think sets up governments? Who do you think starts wars. Who do you think artificial man-made systems are created and broken down.

Resorting to silly ad hominems doesn't make you look great. I'm not saying there is some crazy "conspiracy" for the elites to collapse the system to turn humans into batteries. I'm saying that artifical human systems are created by elites and usually broken down by elites. The exceptions being natural causes.