[dia80]

I have a thoracic spinal cord injury, I can still move my hands and arms fully but not much else. When I was in hospital people were there for all kinds of reasons. There was only one theme. Motorcyclists. What's more they tended to have cervical injuries thus couldn't move at least part of there hands and arms or sometimes all. I can't ever motorcycle now but if I could that would have been enough to put me off. The tail risk is crazy.

[agloeregrets]

The sad part about this is that for the most part it has been solved but it is expensive and a lot of people do not take the solutions seriously.

Good gear, I mean expensive gear, has built in spine protection. Good helmets limit your neck movement. We even have airbag-equipped suits! Outcomes are WAY better than they used to be. If you are in full leathers and with good neck protection, your odds for major spinal injury are incredibly reduced. Similar results also come from riding a motorcycle with ABS.

Problem is: people do not take safety seriously.

The thing is the people you didn't see at the hospital: People who don't wear helmets, let alone the rest of the gear. They died before then.

Motorcycles are a calculated risk, few correctly do the math, but when the math is done it is a far lesser risk.

[tarr11]

> The sad part about this is that for the most part it has been solved

I don't think it's settled that this has been "solved"

"This systematic review highlighted lack of appropriate evidence on efficacy of back protectors. Based on limited information, we are uncertain about the effects of back protectors on spinal injuries. Further research is required to substantiate the effects of back protectors on mortality and other injuries to the back."

https://sjtrem.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13049-016...

[kristofferR]

I think he was talking mostly about good motorcycle airbag vests like the Helite Turtle and e-Turtle. "Good" is an important qualifier word though, the worst airbags offer little protection and don't limit head movement.

This is a great video about the Helite Turtle (it came out before the electronic e-Turtle) and motorcycle airbags in general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2jZryt607U

I'll definitively grab a Helite e-Turtle when I start riding next year.

[TylerE]

The gear is seriously good.

I don't ride, but I am a big fan of racing.

The MotoGP guys (wearing the best of all said gear) crash regularly at VERY high speeds. You'll see them eat asphalt at 150mph, cartwheel off into the gravel trap... and pop right up and dust themselves off. 5 minutes later, they'll have caught a ride back to the pits, get a new suit (if the airbag went off), and be right back out on track.

Not that there aren't injuries, sometimes severe, but generally the outcome is way way better than you'd expect if you aren't used to it.

Over the past 20 years or so, deaths have been pretty rare (roughly the same as in open wheel racing - F1 and similar). Almost all of the fatal crashes involve a rider falling off, and then getting run over by another bike.

[qzw]

All true in racing, but in the real world instead of loose gravel in open runoff areas, you have poles, trees, steel rails, massive cars, and other hard objects to run into. As the saying goes, it’s not the speed that kills you, it’s the sudden stops.

[hutzlibu]

"The sad part about this is that for the most part it has been solved"

I doubt it has solved basic physics, though. When a huge, fat SUV overlooks you at > 100 km/h - then yes, you want all the protection gimmicks avaiable - but chances are you still wake up in hospital - if you are lucky.

I had the same experience, I was in hospital and feeling like sh* - but next to me was a motorcycle accident. He put my misery into perspective.

[bserge]

Good to know. Although it's scary to think about waking up a quadriplegic.

[giantg2]

I want to see one with an ejection seat and parachute.

[trangus_1985]

Motorcycling is deceptively safe. It's just that the cost of finding out when you fuck around is very high.

Safe riding is still more dangerous than being in a car, of course. But, the vast majority of motorcycle injuries are due to known dangerous factors such as alcohol, or going too fast through turns.

[jascii]

"Safe riding is still more dangerous than being in a car" To the operator. If we count the lethal damage caused to others, that number doesn't look so good...

[trangus_1985]

> we count the lethal damage caused to others

So, that's a pretty hefty claim. I'd like to see some data. :)

A very large chunk of motorcycle accidents are single party (about 25%), the rest involve a car, usually at low speeds such as an unprotected left turn or bad merge.

I did some quick googling and found that motorcycles are less likely to be involved in pedestrian accidents than cars, but I think the the onus is on you to support your claim.

[coyotespike]

I think you've misread jascii - they are saying riding a motorcycle is more dangerous for the operator, while driving a car is less dangerous for the operator compared to adjacent pedestrians (for instance).

[jascii]

I just quickly want to thank you for your use of the "they" pronoun, while I generally identify as "he/him" it is nice not to have that assumed!

[jascii]

"Passenger cars and light trucks (vans, pickups, and sport utility vehicles) accounted for 46.1% and 39.1%, respectively, of the 4875 deaths, with the remainder split among motorcycles, buses, and heavy trucks." https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/11/4/232

That makes 85.2% of pedestrian fatalities. This does not make automobile traffic a "safe" form of traffic in my book...

[the_gipsy]

> going too fast through turns

Going fast through turns is exactly the point for the majority of riders (all except choppers)

[i_am_proteus]

Yes, but not going too fast.

One of the reasons I stopped going on group rides was lead riders who burned through blind corners. I'll take an open corner with good visibility as fast as I dare, but if I can't see through the turn, I take it slowly.

[mPReDiToR]

Always ride your own ride.

Let the other guys arrive at the scene of the accident first.

You, me, a couple of other middle aged guys all hanging back on our sports tourers, while the crotch rockets are off antagonising the cage dwellers.

We'll all arrive in time for coffee, no sweat.

[i_am_proteus]

So completely spot, on my friend.

[the_gipsy]

Yea you’re right. When riding in group, it should be ok to stay behind, as long as the last rider of a split-group waits at road forks.