[neonbones]

The rate of shooting in the USA was always strange to me. I'm from Ukraine, one of the poorest countries in Europe, the country that on hybrid "civil war" with Russia help for the militia.

There are many ex-militaries from volunteers who go to volunteer battalions. And many of them return with guns. But even with a state like that, you probably won't hear any gunshots in cities in your life. The first time I heard one was where I took a trip to the USA, random "gang" shooting in NY, as I remember.

From my perspective, as someone who is culturally not so integrated with the USA, I think the roots of this are how you see guns and feel around firearms at all. In my country, people are cautious about the idea of using a firearm against other people. Even if they have one, they probably do drunk shit with a knife, not with a gun.

Anyway, I also can't understand how any gangs are still alive in the USA in our time. Even my shittiest country eliminated all of them in the 90s, so are Russia and other CIS countries. You can find many documentation films about that on youtube. There is almost nothing left except massive graveyards of dead criminals with funny grave tomb pictures like "sitting in my first Mercedes Benz with a gun, cool guy."

I may be wrong somewhere. That's just my perspective as an outsider.

[mensetmanusman]

Gangs in certain areas are the issue. I support solving it with money, eg paying people to relocate.

[chmod600]

Ignore averages. They are often deceptive, and here as well. Most places in the US have zero gangs, and many places have zero murders.

The question is: why are murders so out of control in certain areas? And the answer is: local policing and local politics. DAs don't prosecute, and so police won't risk their life to bring people in. They show up 30 minutes later as the clean up crew.

So it's actually fairly normal for repeat offenses here because someone is never arrested, never charged, out on bail, plead down to a slap on the wrist, or out on parole where supervision is a joke.

Why are local politics so screwed up? That's an interesting question. One aspect is one-party rule: the Democrats are such an overwhelming majority in a lot of these inner cities that all the politics happen before the ballot is ever printed. Within the Democratic party, there's a dangerous contingent that simply doesn't want to imprison criminals for reasons I don't entirely understand.

Why do the people in such cities put up with such a bad system? Because even within those cities, the problem areas are contained, and can be safely ignored (sadly). "Root causes" sounds nicer than "lock 'em up", so most of the people in the city nod along and go about their business, and avoid the bad parts of town.

My guess is that Ukrainians just don't have time for that kind of nonsense. If someone is violent, they are put away quickly. The idea of making a deal with a violent criminal is probably not fashionable there. There are lots of poor people in Ukraine, and mostly the same skin color, so nobody puts up with the "violence is just a symptom of poverty and capitalism and racism and ten other problems that must be solved first". A few civil liberties probably get stomped along the way, which also helps bring crime down to low levels; but I don't think giving up civil liberties is a prerequisite of law and order.

[neonbones]

Thanks for the informative answer.

Cant the "roots" be also in segregation problems before? If I remember correctly what I learned early, it was called something like "red lining" created "bad neighborhoods" in cities.

>My guess is that Ukrainians just don't have time for that kind of nonsense. If someone is violent, they are put away quickly.

It is mostly true for Ukraine. But the real curse, as I said, is not organized crime, gangs, or someone with a firearm. The biggest problem in Ukraine is domestic violence. Most police officers don't have any weapon here except pepper sprays, stun guns, and other non-lethal tools. They usually fight with a drunk 40-something man who will get drunk and try to kill his family after that.

Domestic violence is a curse for CIS countries. And even if Ukraine changed government and how everything works with new and young politicians, you can't change people. In the end, 40%+ of the population suffers violence, and most of them, of course, are women. Great inheritance from the Soviet era, where "no violence, no sex, no drugs, only happy people." https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Violence_against_women_in_Ukrain...

>According to the estimation of OSCE the violence towards women is widespread in Ukraine and it is associated with three times more deaths than the ongoing War in Donbas in the Donbas region of Ukraine

Fragment from the Wiki article. More women get killed by their husbands than people die in the ongoing war with artillery, tanks, aviation, etc. This is as bad as you can imagine when you read it.

Want to know how Russia fights domestic violence? They just decriminalized it, that's all. They don't even try anymore, so the only help you can get is from non-profit organizations.

[chmod600]

"Cant the "roots" be also in"

Maybe, but it's not relevant. Let's all fix the root problems, but let's not create a dependency on it. If we want to solve a problem, we have to solve the problem in the reality we have (flawed as it is), not the reality we want.

"The biggest problem in Ukraine is domestic violence."

Sad to hear. Going back to the main topic, it seems like you might be suggesting that women owning guns might be a solution to that problem?

[neonbones]

> If we want to solve a problem, we have to solve the problem in the reality we have (flawed as it is), not the reality we want.

I totally agree here. It's not better than typical procrastination with waiting for "ideal env" to do anything. It won't happen. The "magic monday" when it's will be the best time to solve a problem won't happen. You try to solve it, or you don't.

>it seems like you might be suggesting that women owning guns might be a solution to that problem?

I'm not sure about that one. Would it actually help women in that situation? I'm not even sure if that won't just create additional problems without any help for the original case.

[jdkee]

"Anyway, I also can't understand how any gangs are still alive in the USA in our time. Even my shittiest country eliminated all of them in the 90s, so are Russia and other CIS countries. You can find many documentation films about that on youtube. There is almost nothing left except massive graveyards of dead criminals with funny grave tomb pictures like "sitting in my first Mercedes Benz with a gun, cool guy.""

The U.S. has the rule of law, due process, innocent until proven guilty, etc.

[LQexplanation]

Poland here - we also had issues with gangs and organised crime after collapse of communist government. It took few years for situation to stabilise, but then we got rid of gangs with legal system and police. So it looks a little bit weird that USA with older systems and democracy (not to mention better armed police) can't won with organised crime.

[neonbones]

>The U.S. has the rule of law, due process, innocent until proven guilty, etc.

It's the same here, and we use roman law, so there won't be any precedents what someone gets to the court. All cases are the exception and go through all the processes without looking back on the same cases.

Why would you think that the USA is the only country that has it? We even got incredible labor laws. They are so good that we don't even need unions for protection against companies. And just a reminder, that USA is #1 by prisoners in the world. https://www.statista.com/statistics/262961/countries-with-th...

Not so innocent, huh?

I know, most people in the USA think that other countries are like poor villages without tech and law there.

But even poor Ukraine is much more digitalized and advanced in tech. Still, even in the case of transparency of how the law works, where the budget goes (you can even vote with your mobile app where you want to spend budget money in your city), court cases, it's all digitalized, transparent, and easy to check by anyone.

To be more precise, here are some links on typical bankings[1][2], government open source big data on all information that happened in the country[3], digitalized id and passport, with all the documents and request for any data or papers[4], transparent government tenders[5] and one of big media project that does all the corruption investigations with big politicians in it[6]. And no one from journalists even got arrested for that.

With these links and information, I want to say that it's funny that people think that other countries got some shady government, there is no power of law, and all people are struggling without real freedom.

Do you have LGBT raves to block entrance to the White House and annoy the president? Because we do[7]

1. https://www.monobank.ua/?lang=en

2. https://next.privat24.ua/

3. https://opendata.gov.ua/en/

4. https://diia.gov.ua/

5. https://prozorro.gov.ua/

6. https://bihus.info/

7. https://strana.news/news/346451-muzykalnyj-prajd-na-bankovoj...