[Factorium]

ICE motorbikes seem like the most obvious type of vehicle to immediately mandate 100% EV, with an aggressive target like 12 months (to clear out existing inventory).

The segment and vehicles themselves are small enough that this changeover can be made fairly easily, with immense benefits for noise pollution in cities.

[sgt]

You are clearly not a biker... otherwise you might have understood why EV motorcycles are years, maybe decades into the future.

If you refer to e.g Asia where motorcycles are possibly your only transport, then sure; your argument is valid. But this is HN, and in Western countries a motorcycle is basically a hobby. Heck, they are often even more expensive to run than cars.

So as to why EV bikes are not even close to being ready:

(a) The range is abysmal, and the availability of charging simply isn't there in areas that many bikers venture (away from traffic, hundreds of miles into the hills). Motorcyclists try to avoid the interstate and main highways if possible. You rarely see a Zero bike for this and many other reasons. A proper ride may be 12 hours per day for hundreds of miles, for days on end.

(b) Battery mass. The energy per mass unit in even the best batteries make it very impractical with motorcycles that really need to be as light as possible.

(c) Longevity. A lot of bikers own not just one, but many motorcycles. You may have the latest BMW R1250GS, but also a garage littered with anything from KDX 200 to DRZ 400 and Honda CBR1000RR. Those bikes can still be used for years to come, and it doesn't make sense to scrap them. PS - bikes are generally not that reliable though, but that doesn't necessarily affect longevity too much as owners love to tinker.

[seanmcdirmid]

It is kind of inevitable in the long run if cars move on to being EVs, where will bikes fill up if there are no more gas stations?

That being said, I’ve only ever seen one EV motorcycle in China once (not just a big electric bike), it had unreal acceleration, I’m not sure it would be safe to ride.

[toast0]

It'll be a long time before the whole car fleet turns over, and then you've got gasoline powered box vans and what not, too.

But as (or if) the liquid fuel demand drops, you'll probably see the density of stations drop too. Both fewer pumps per station and fewer stations. But I suspect most areas will have some gasoline availability for at least my lifetime. Worst case, auto parts stores will carry 5 gallon jugs prefilled with stabilized gasoline. That would get a motorcycle around quite a bit.

For old-timers who hang onto their classic gasoline powered cars, they might need to plan trips around fueling stations, like natural gas drivers and EV drivers currently do. (EV is easier, you can always bring a 110V charger and wait a long time)

[sgt]

Thing is... there will likely always be gas stations catering to vintage vehicles and such. Bikers will have to pay premium for bio-ethanol or such meant for exotic and old cars. Luckily motorcycles are generally decent (not great) on gas mileage, so it might work out OK.

[crims0n]

That is one way to kill an entire industry.

Electric motorcycles have been here for years, nobody is adopting them because nobody wants them. They are closer to electric bicycles than they are motorbikes.

When I jump on my motorcycle, it is about the experience - not anything practical. The startup ritual, the heat of the engine on a cool day, the symphony of sound and vibrations, the weight of what is under you, the absolute bliss you feel shifting through the curves of the road, the adrenaline of masterfully coordinating lean, angle of attack, rev matching, and counter steer.

There is something incredibly dull about an electric motorcycle comparatively. They are practical, and I will admit the linear acceleration is fun, but with so much sacrificed I could never see myself owning one as a recreational vehicle.

[foepys]

Plus electric motorcycles are loud, they make a high pitched sound. German motorcycle magazine "Motorrad" does a huge test with almost all motorcycles on the market in the Alps every year. They test a lot of things there, including noise levels.

The loudest motorcycle this year when in motion? An electric motorcycle.

This obviously not including aftermarket exhausts.

[oneplane]

I wouldn't mind the industry being killed. But then again, I'm only on the receiving end of the noise, stink, bad drivers, people using infrastructure for pleasure etc. I bet if I liked driving for fun or using shared infrastructure for pleasure instead of need, I might like it too. But I don't.

[et2o]

This would destroy an already distressed and shrinking industry. EV motorcycles are comparatively very expensive and with limited range. None of the major manufacturers outside of Harley Davidson have commercialized an electric motorcycle yet. Furthermore, given the relative scarcity and lower miles traveled of motorcycles, banning ICE bikes would have limited environmental effect.

[1970-01-01]

You have it backwards. Motorcycle riders are not going to swing over to electric at any time soon:

Bikers keep their rides for decades and

ICE motorcycles can last just as long and cars, if not longer, and

The price for entry on a new electric motorcycle is so far away from the price of ICE motorcycles it financially can not work for owners. And

There is little benefit to the environment to switch. Modern motorcycles have been sold with catalytic converters for decades, and they also get 40+ MPG.

[dharmab]

> There is little benefit to the environment to switch. Modern motorcycles have been sold with catalytic converters for decades, and they also get 40+ MPG.

Previous emissions standards for motorcycles were much lower than cars. To the point where a bike getting 50mpg and carrying one person output more pollution than a sedan getting 25mpg and carrying an entire family.

This has been fixed with Euro4's introduction for the 2017 model year (which is why so many bikes were redesigned that year with huge exhausts.)

[marcinzm]

Batteries are heavy and bulky so difficult to fit in a bike. Moreover the noise is on purpose so they'd just add a loudspeaker or something instead.

[oneplane]

Perhaps they could just put the noise in an headphone and leave the rest of us in peace. They get the experience they want, and we get to ignore it.

[dan-robertson]

I suspect that the noise is a big appeal to motorcycle owners.

[whartung]

It's not just motorcycles.

Around here, every cowboy with a V8 Challenger, Charger, Mustang, Camaro, or Pickup truck seems to have stripped off any semblance of "mufflers" because they want to "hear" their powerful V8 motor.

I live near a freeway entrance (and by "near" I mean at least 1/2 mile away), and out here, at night, when the freeways are more clear it's not too uncommon to have the silent darkness shattered by one of these cars opening up the throttle on the on ramp and racing to Vegas. Down the road is an interchange, and I've heard them start near me and just roar down the freeway, across the overpass and down the other freeway.

These cars are everywhere around here. Not to say the motorcycles aren't participants, but down here, the cars prevail.

[ultrarunner]

This is a good point. I suspect that due to Harley’s older demographic the “loud pipes save lives” crowd will give way to a demographic that isn’t so interested in obnoxious noise levels. That probably won’t follow as much for car drivers where the noise isn’t as neatly segmented.

[xattt]

Is there an industry name for this specific phenomenon? Where goods are purchased/owned/carried solely for an intimidating appearance without any intent of using for their intended purpose?

[dharmab]

In the automotive world this is called "presence"

To automotive marketers this type of customer falls under "status seekers"

[henearkr]

A lot of people needing to buy imposing bikes, cars, clothes etc do it because they feel insecure, for example in their masculinity...

[dharmab]

You aren't a biker and it shows.

Here's a 9 minute video that rebuts your 10 second unresearched, uninformed statement, with real data. Please watch it and become more informed about real ways we can improve motorcycles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2zlYpy6QCM

[sigzero]

Yeah, good luck with that.