[wintermutestwin]

My greybeard anecdata:

I did exactly this in my early career and it worked great in small organizations. Mid to late career, I worked for a tech megacorp and was essentially forced to ladder climb because it was up or out. Eventually, hit a grade level that was oversaturated and got offered a package to leave on the 13th round of layoffs in my time there. My seagull manager at the time had no idea of how much organizational tribal knowledge they lost, but everyone my grade or lower who worked with me did.

I postulate that the size of the larger organization is inverse to the applicability of the "guru" strategy.

[bendouglas]

I think the "up or out" dogma is garbage, and ends up hurting some of an organizations best people. Sorry to hear this happened to you.

I truly don't think it's that challenging to allow for an alternative path. But as a low level manager at a big corp there's only so much you can do, I get it.

[coldacid]

"Up or out" is the best way to enable the Peter Principle and all the institutional mediocrity it brings. When you keep pushing your best performers to a level where they can't perform, what you're really doing is pushing the entire organization down instead. I wish more managers would recognize that.

Fortunately, I'm right now in a place where that doesn't happen, but at the same time there's not that much room for growth either. Fortunately, there's all sorts of personal and OSS projects for that.

[6510]

I'm not sure what the idea is exactly but it seems people get promoted until they are just outside their comfort zone. There they quietly do their job without complaining hoping no one notices until a scapegoat is needed.

[khalilravanna]

Or until they silently hate their job and leave.

[tyjaksn]

Peter principle

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

[appleflaxen]

> My seagull manager

i'm sure this is a typo, but IDK what was intended.

senior manager?

[diroussel]

A seagull manager, like a seagull, flies in, shits all over things then flies out.

[WaitWaitWha]

... steals the best sandwiches from children's hands, while declaring "mine, mine, mine, mine"...

[ectopod]

Animals exhibiting this behaviour are known as kleptoparasites.

[swader999]

Sometimes they eat the plastic lunch bag and die.

[BLKNSLVR]

Don't forget the incessant screeching.

[pojzon]

Thank you Ill remember this explanation as it hits the base so hard.

[dmje]

I also like "mushroom managing" - cover them in shit, keep them in the dark...

[a3n]

And sometimes they steal your french fry. Or your red Swingline stapler.

[thunkshift1]

Poetic

[haasted]

Probably a reference to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_management

"[...] a management style wherein a manager only interacts with employees when they deem a problem has arisen. The perception is that such a management style involves hasty decisions about things of which they have little understanding, resulting in a messy situation with which others must deal."