[jorblumesea]

Jackson Palmer, creator of Doge Coin, summarizes why he thinks this is a false narrative:

https://twitter.com/ummjackson/status/1415353986392072196?re...

I tend to agree. There are legitimate use cases, but overall it's unclear whether "the little guys" are really the main use case or how much the average Nigerian (or anyone else except the ultra wealthy) might benefit.

Now if your point is that some wealthy elites want to take power away from other wealthy elites, I'd say this is a more accurate take on the situation. For example, being able to circumvent taxes, or being able to manipulate markets on a global scale.

[spiffydave]

Anyone can buy crypto. Not understanding how it's only for wealthy elites.

And Mr. Palmer is out of crypto. Good for him. And the solution to reign in fiat-based crony capitalism is what?

I 100% agree with the premise that the ultra-wealthy are finally getting on board with crypto and will pollute it with the same manipulation they've used in other markets. But that still doesn't mean it can't be used by the average person to build wealth if done correctly.

[jorblumesea]

Can everyone just tweet and move markets? Does the average person need hard to trace currencies to evade taxes? Does the average person have stakes in large exchanges, or stand to gain anything by a loose (read: non-existent) regulatory environment?

The average person really doesn't need many of the use cases that crypto provides, as of today. Most of the "normal people use cases" have yet to materialize. I really struggle with this narrative, because it just doesn't reflect any sense of reality. I own crypto, I heavily participate in the space, and yet I don't get people that think a mother of 3 needs to own Eth in any practical sense.

[beaner]

Funny cuz this article describes a whole country starting to find "normal people use cases" for crypto.

[jorblumesea]

The vast majority of the article focuses on speculative trading, not day to day activities. There's a small paragraph on paying employees, but really it's just the mismanaged finances of Nigeria providing that need. Replace "Bitcoin" with "USD" or "seashells" and it's effectively the same thing. Sure, if you're the 1-2 countries in the world with 200% daily inflation, it makes sense. The vast majority of crypto holders (and users here) come from relatively stable western countries with strong regulatory environments with stable central banks.

It's this narrative of "rich western citizens" talking about "real world use cases" that completely diverge from their day to day which is the ultimate irony. Think of the poor Africans! Said no one from Coinbase or Binance. Think of the use cases! Said the wealthy SWE speculatively trading shitcoins, x5 leverage to the gills.

There are real world use cases, but likely if you're posting here on your macbook, they do not apply to you. People don't give a shit about venezuela or Nigeria, it's just greed.

[beaner]

Did we read the same article? The theme to me seemed to be around people using it to store wealth and keep businesses running despite bank account closures - not speculation.

[0x000000001]

Why does anyone care what Jackson Palmer thinks?

[wwweston]

Why does anyone care what commentors on HN think?

Why not read the actual Twitter thread and see if the argument has merit? Or engage the summary that the GP brought into the thread instead of pretending the only relevant point in play is the authority of Palmer?

And finally, why not acknowledge that maybe someone who created a coin that took off might have some worthwhile insight?

[spiffydave]

I did read it. Not super impressed, but glad he has the freedom to say what he wants.

Yes, crypto is being manipulated and distorted by the wealthy and powerful. It's sad to see. But it's still beneficial to the average person to have other options outside of the current system.

[hanniabu]

Because it supports their bias that crypto is nothing but scams and has no utility

[spiffydave]

Yeah, and Mr. Palmer evidently has his own political axe to grind. Good for him. Glad he can say what he wants.

[quadcore]

Well apparently it's taken people out of poverty in Nigeria. Now I agree it's a tax problem. Coulnt smart contracts solve that?

[SwimSwimHungry]

Apparently? There is no real proof this has brought mostly normal people in Nigeria out of poverty, at least at large enough numbers to be believed. This is just some yarn spun up by proponents of cryptocurrency to rally more to their cause.

I'd be shocked if most people in Nigeria even have a personal computer and reliable internet. That's how impoverished most of them are.

[exdsq]

> I'd be shocked if most people in Nigeria even have a personal computer and reliable internet. That's how impoverished most of them are.

I did a little research on this for a job last year and internet access/mobile phone ownership numbers are far higher than I expected. Mobile payments are already a very common form of transaction in Africa. The Gates Foundation mentioned that one of the big issues with their current infrastructure is middle-men fees when talking about remittances between African countries through to mobile credit, so crypto is actually a strong candidate to improve that area too.

[endisneigh]

Why do people use Africa and Nigeria interchangeably?

[exdsq]

In this context they have similar mobile and internet coverage (excluding South Africa)

[spiffydave]

Nigeria has a cell phone adoption rate of around 50% currently. People can trade crypto, do banking, money transfers, etc. on a cell phone. The idea that a desktop computer is required is a very old-school mindset. Similar to your "everyone in Nigeria is impoverished" comment.

Also, it's not about getting rich. It's about surviving when the government has all power to freeze your bank accounts, inflate the currency, etc.

[beaner]

Google: "what percentage of nigerians have cell phones"

Answer: "While Nigeria's mobile penetration rate is lower than developed markets, it is higher than the average across sub-Saharan Africa, standing at around 50% as of 2018, and estimated to rise to 130 million or about 60%-65% of the total population by 2025."

Also: Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Which, in this case, is to say that it may be that "there is no real proof that this has brought mostly normal people in nigeria out of poverty." But did you RTFA? It talks about how crypto is helping normal people. So there isn't evidence against this idea either. Maybe we should try to find out, rather than be dismissive.