[analyte123]

Getting a vaccine to cross an international border is not the same as getting a vaccine to walk to a bar on your own street in your own country. Besides, people who have not had the Covid vaccine are not directly preventing anyone from enjoying life. The people are either choosing to not enjoy life themselves, or their government is putting restrictions on them (and then they are obeying them) while blaming the restrictions on non-vaccinated people.

[bern4444]

> Getting a vaccine to cross an international border is not the same as getting a vaccine to walk to a bar on your own street in your own country.

In NY it's trivial to get this vaccine. Getting it is certainly easier than getting any other government id (state id, permit, driver's license etc). Certainly ID is needed to purchase alcohol, drive a car, etc. Maybe not at a bar, but often for purchasing alcohol from a liquor or wine store.

> Besides, people who have not had the Covid vaccine are not directly preventing anyone from enjoying life.

Of course they are. They're taking up space in hospitals, endangering public health, and causing unnecessary harm by spreading covid and increasing the risk of a new variant.

[analyte123]

As long as one is viewing humans solely as harmful disease vectors, obese people also take up substantial space in hospitals and cause further obesity through social contagion. However, we don't mandate that restaurants prohibit serving sugary drinks to those with BMI over 30. People with various STIs also do everything in your list, but that is addressed through awareness of safer practices, in some cases voluntary vaccination and PrEP, and research into better treatments, not through banning extramarital sex or shutting down locations where people meet for sexual activity. People who participate in injury-prone sports and activities also take up disproportionate hospital space, but the US passed the ACA in part to require medical coverage for people regardless of their lifestyle.

The reasoning for restricting behavior based on people's Covid risk (including vaccination status) is exactly the same as in the scenarios above.

People vaccinated against Covid can choose today to live a normal life, confident in the vaccine's protection against their serious illness or hospitalization, without scapegoating those not vaccinated for the entirely predictable seasonal and variant spread of Covid, or forcing struggling small businesses to hire bouncers to check the medical papers of every customer.

[Daishiman]

Anywhere where an ICU bed is taken by an unvaxxed COVID patient is a bed that was available for anyone else for any other reason.

Anwhere where unvaxxed people have to take time out because they're sick is time they could have spent working, contributing towards their families or communities, and someone is going to have to take up the work.

So not, at a collective level, unvaccinated people are _very much_ preventing others from enjoying themselves.

[goostavos]

Is that actually a compelling argument? How is an individual's choice which led to them occupying an ICU as a COVID patient worse than any other of their (presumably very dumb) individual choices?

If we get to pick what we get to shame ICU bed occupancy for, I've got a LOT of other ideas that people probably won't like.

By definition, society is made of up lots of interactions which prevent others from enjoying themselves. I struggle to understand why the line gets drawn at COVID.

[Clubber]

>Anywhere where an ICU bed is taken by an unvaxxed COVID patient is a bed that was available for anyone else for any other reason.

They typically don't put COVID patients in the same vicinity as other patients for obvious reasons. There's usually a dedicated COVID wing.

[h_anna_h]

Don't put unvaxxed and these who were injured/became ill due to their own incompetence or recklessness in an ICU bed then? (as long as they are full that is)

> and someone is going to have to take up the work.

There is a lot of unemployment. This is also true for the paid and unpaid leaves btw, should we illegalise these?

[Daishiman]

> There is a lot of unemployment. This is also true for the paid and unpaid leaves btw, should we illegalise these?

If you are consistently taking leave because you puke your guts out every week from eating spoiled food, that wouldn't be much of an excuse for paid leave.

I find the same is true for those who choose not to vaccinate. I do not find that to be a reasonable risk profile to accommodate in a consequence-free manner.

[AndrewBissell]

Just gonna repost something I saw on Twitter that summarizes this perfectly:

government: take these shots or you'll never get your lives back

person who keeps up with the news: how DARE the people who won't take their shots hold us hostage like this!

https://twitter.com/gnocchiwizard/status/1419721365276475394

[bern4444]

Classic slippery slope fallacy. Just cause we allow something now doesn't mean we allow it always or are in favor of the general principle.

Put up at least a half honest response to contribute to the discussion