[itsoktocry]

>That's nothing compared to offering a completely fake product.

I cannot wrap my head around this mindset.

So the truck doesn't exist in any manner in which they claim, be it speed, hauling capacity, range or price. But what they claim also isn't "fake"?

Let me spell it out, again: Tesla has raised money off of technology for which there's is no evidence they can or will ever achieve. FSD, solar shingles, the Semi's specs/price, the Cybertruck's spec/price (it's likely the Cybertruck as demonstrated isn't even street legal).

The fact that they have an unproven prototype roaming the streets is a long way from what they are selling. Why does the fact that they have one-off prototypes absolve them of this?

I've asked these questions multiple times, but the Tesla shareholders/astroturfers refuse to answer them:

1) had Nikola put their Semi cab on top of a golf cart frame to film the video (or better yet, a Model X frame ie no real underlying tech to match their claims), would that have been fine, because it "drove"? Sounds like it.

2) what about the Solar shingle demo? Employees involved in it claimed, under oath, that it did not function. It still doesn't exist today. The Buffalo factory is practically idle and shingles are generically sourced from China. Is that something you would consider "fake"?

[Dylan16807]

> So the truck doesn't exist in any manner in which they claim, be it speed, hauling capacity, range or price. But what they claim also isn't "fake"?

Where did all those come from? You just said range and price before, and range is easy to fix.

And if a product costs more than expected to build, it still exists.

> shareholders/astroturfers

Shove off.

> solar shingles

They installed a couple dozen roofs, didn't they? Based on my existing knowledge I'd call it garbage but not fake. How long was this demo before those installations, and did any of the parts work?

[itsoktocry]

>Where did all those come from? You just said range and price before

Who cares "what I said before". These are claims they've made that have no basis in reality. Claiming "we have a truck that can do all this" and can't is not that far away from claiming "we have a working truck" when you don't.

>They installed a couple dozen roofs, didn't they?

So you don't even know, you're guessing. They literally installed fake roofs that didn't function on a Hollywood neighbourhood set piece, then bought the company who claimed to be able to make these (a related party) within days. Is that much different than rolling a truck down a hill to raise money?

This information is free on the internet, people have been reporting on it for years. But the Tesla PR machine is strong. Try reading the law suit deposition, and then go try to order the shingles they advertised during the event. Then go visit the Buffalo factory where they were to produce these shingles (received hundreds of millions in subsidies for it). Then go look at what they are actually installing, years later, at jacked prices (generic shingles anyone can order from Chinese producers). And if you're still keen, you can read the reporting on the lawsuit happening right now about how all this came together to bail out Solar City.

Here is an opinion piece about some of it:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-07-30/nikola...

Not sure about you, but slapping an inferior product together, years later at a higher price, that isn't what you demonstrated when you took the money, is fraudulent:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/30/22410075/tesla-solar-roof...

"We can't actually deliver the product for the price we told you". Huh.

We can also talk about the "Paint it Black" FSD video, which was heavily edited to demonstrate full self driving capabilities which still don't exist today (and may never, but for which they have received billions in revenue) as a marketing piece. After that, maybe the battery swap (earned millions in subsidies from California), which also was not a feasible technology with a faked demonstration. Here's a little read on that one:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/21/the-tesla-battery-swa...

>Based on my existing knowledge I'd call it garbage but not fake.

I guess one could argue the Nikola truck was "garbage" because it had no drivetrain, but not "fake" because it existed? We did see it roll down the hill, after all.

Nikola was a fraud. Other companies are doing the same thing, because it works.

>Shove off.

Boy, you were pretty quiet when people were accusing me of trolling and being a shortseller above, eh. Why is that?

I'm going to let you in on something cool: I'm not a shortseller, I have no financial stake in Tesla other than what I own, long, in S&P500 ETFs. Meanwhile, there are Tesla shareholders and owners in this thread and others, who don't offer any disclaimer when they praise the company.

Interesting how your preconceived biases can lead you to conclusions that are in fact the opposite of reality. Fancy that.

[Dylan16807]

> Who cares "what I said before".

Because it's really hard to talk about whether a product is fraudulent or not if the list of problems keeps changing.

> Claiming "we have a truck that can do all this" and can't is not that far away from claiming "we have a working truck" when you don't.

To an extent, yes. With the huge caveat that production cost is not something a truck 'does'.

> So you don't even know, you're guessing.

I'm going by the best news articles I could find on short notice. If you have better, link it. I don't think it's reasonable to demand I go do physical tours before I can talk about the subject.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-solar-insight/insid...

"In California, the nation’s leading solar market, there were twelve Tesla roof systems connected to the grid as of May 31"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFWKVraGI1E

"Tesla Solar Roof - 100 Days After Installation"

> They literally installed fake roofs that didn't function on a Hollywood neighbourhood set piece, then bought the company who claimed to be able to make these (a related party) within days. Is that much different than rolling a truck down a hill to raise money?

So with this I was able to find some info. It's true, there was a fake demo of a particular kind of tile.

But the product does exist now. Your claim that it still doesn't exist is just wrong.

It's also important to note that they had different-looking tiles that already worked, and by the time they took preorders it looks like things were working.

So that's bad, but it's not on the same level as nikola.

> Not sure about you, but slapping an inferior product together, years later at a higher price, that isn't what you demonstrated when you took the money, is fraudulent

If you charge more than you promised, yes. That's different from being unable to meet the originally planned production cost on something. If you let people cancel orders, which tesla appears to be doing, it's not fraud.

> the battery swap (earned millions in subsidies from California), which also was not a feasible technology with a faked demonstration

Wow, that's pretty bad! Thanks for the info, I'll bring it up to people in the future.

Still not on par with a fake product though.

> Boy, you were pretty quiet when people were accusing me of trolling and being a shortseller above, eh. Why is that?

I don't respond to every comment that is rude to a third party. Almost none of them, really.

> Interesting how your preconceived biases can lead you to conclusions that are in fact the opposite of reality. Fancy that.

You're making wild assumptions about what I believe and getting them wrong. Fancy that.

And you do/did come off a bit like a troll in some of your comments.