[UncleMeat]

They don't get "so much help" in all the years before because of the same forces that resist change at later ages. My family got a lot of hatred and resistance for just pushing back on the idea that it was okay that many of the schools (you can guess which ones) in our district simply never sent a single application to the 3rd grade GT system because their principals didn't believe that any application would ever succeed. They were wrong, of course.

[username90]

So why not fix that problem? You can't make up 12 lost years beginning at College, putting them to compete with people who are that far ahead will just make everyone feel those people are stupid even if it isn't true.

[UncleMeat]

People are trying but facing resistance from the same people who resist it at higher ages. We can’t “just fix that” because any discussion of social equity in education brings out active resistance and even death threats.

[dcow]

Isn't it telling that stronger resistance is met in the younger years where the costs are paid by society and not the individuals? I deeply disagree that it’s the same set of individuals. Maybe I’m N=1 but I want to take focus off solving things at the college level and shift to solving things at the community level, explicitly not wholesale rejection of any program that benefits the disparaged. Rather a call to use the limited resources we allocate more effectively.

Let’s take the pessimistic stance that society is actively working to perpetually oppress the lower class and under privileged. If so then the fact that e.g. college AA is allowed to slip by but primary school support is opposed with death threats tells me that fixing primary school education is barking up the right tree or poking the hornets nest, what have you. The real threat is actual competition, which starts in the early years.

I tend to think is less of some insidious underbelly of society working to keep people oppressed and rather a more simple: good primary schools cost money and resources and we are ultimately selfish people who signal virtue yet balk come time to face reality and fund it. But that doesn't really change the conclusion. Democratize access to good primary school education. Increase funding and dismantle broken school district “gerrymandering” of funds allocation (in many cities rich communities produce rich and desirable primary schools because funds are allocated at the neighborhood level so it just perpetuates inequality). In my opinion the most effective thing a single concerned family can do would be to move to an under privileged neighborhood and send their kids to the public school there. Force yourself to confront reality and work to better the education for all. How many upper middle class virtue signaling anti racist parents (or parents to be) do you know who go gentrify a neighborhood and then send their kids to a charter school? Yeah. That’s literally SF in a nutshell for you.

[blackgirldev]

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-06-07-980607...

Speaking of primary, elementary level perspective…

The school in question is where I went prior to its closing. After I graduated, white families decided to close a very new, nice school because they just didn’t want their kids among black students.

Even where there is money and great support, whites just don’t want to have any funding to go to black kids without their say-so.

It will never be solved. The hate is too deep. My old neighborhood had to resort to lengthy legal proceedings to get what they already paid for.

This is why affirmative action is necessary. The whites on the board closed the school because they wanted control.

Does anyone see how totally messed up this situation is and how it highlights the reality of deeply ingrained racism? Even middle class blacks who are not poverty level and not asking for free lunches can’t get a break. They bought and paid for a modern school, watched white people run away to other communities then forced the blacks to be bussed to the white school where the whites could allocate taxes their government controlled.

Not related but interesting: This is also where Shonda Rhimes, famous writer/producer of Grey’s Anatomy, grew up.

[daddylongstroke]

I went to an all-black public school after my family moved to the US in a Chicago "suburb" overrun by gang activity and crack houses (yep, my sister and I were the only white kids in the whole school). Most of the teachers were black, and upper-middle class, none that I knew of living anywhere near the neighborhood where the school was (down the block from me). I once asked a younger teacher who would frequently mention her kids during classroom "lectures" why they never visit her during the school day. She sheepishly replied that they go to private school. This was around '92-'93. A few years later the school district put out a poll of the teachers where a couple of the questions were focused on if the teachers' kids (if any) went to school in the same building where the teachers taught, and if not, did they go to public or private school. Something like 58% of the teachers sent their kids to private schools outside of their own area. :-/

[dcow]

Right I agree this is deeply fucked and I think we’re saying basically the same thing about how problematic the primary schooling politics and funding setup is. We’ve seen the same.. atrocities. We just disagree that AA is effective at solving this deeply ingrained racist behavior. I’d rather see laws and policy that e.g. evenly distribute school funding to prevent racist neighborhood dynamics. We need to attack and expose this bullshit at its roots.

[UncleMeat]

> I deeply disagree that it’s the same set of individuals.

I can only share my experience, but in my case it is literally the same people. The same organizers and leaders. There are surely people out there who support one and not the other, but I don't observe them acting. When I see the people at the school board meetings, it is the same faces opposing initiatives trying to get more kids on free-and-reduced-lunch into accelerated elementary programs and also opposing initiatives to get more kids on free-and-reduced-lunch into magnet high schools.

> How many upper middle class virtue signaling anti racist parents (or parents to be) do you know who go gentrify a neighborhood and then send their kids to a charter school?

Lots. But this isn't some proof that the activists are all liars. Again, these don't tend to be the people actually pushing for change at school board meetings.

[dcow]

Sorry I meant entirely the same set of individuals. I have no doubt there’s overlap. In short I agree with you: fuck people who gerrymander school districts because they don’t want their kids to experience diversity. My point has more been that opposing college AA is not synonymous with opposing all instances of programs that aim to help the underprivileged. I just think by the time AA is relevant it is simply often too late.

My point about the parents sending their kids to magnet schools is that they’re kinda cancerous turds. They are actively resisting true diversity while at the same time claiming to be woke fucking anti racist saints. Fuck that attitude.

[UncleMeat]

And I’m telling you, at the actual school board meetings it is entirely the same set of people.

The people you are complaining about don’t show up on either side.