[saiya-jin]

What a load of bullcrap to be polite. I hear this from various eastern far right wing supporters quite a bit, and it isn't based on any facts, just some wishful thinking.

Hungary is a net receiver of direct money subsidies. The fact is most of it is stolen by government-aligned forces within economy, this is a well-oiled machine in place for a long time. Western companies come to Hungary because its cheap force, despite being generally lower quality than west, many of which would be rather unemployed otherwise and probably migrate west or live miserable life on social support.

The simple problem is, and that's not just Hungary but all countries in the east, there aren't enough big domestic companies that would be successful and employ people. Most failed long time ago, most really skilled people went west since life is simply so much better elsewhere. Why bother with corrupt semi-dictators, when you can thrive in fair and just society not so far.

If you have kids/plan them, its a no brainer - all parents want the best for their kids, and giving them such a bad starting position in life in a fucked up corrupt primitive environment like eastern Europe is really just selfish acting at best. I know what I am talking about, I am coming from one of those places. Its not about how many good things are still there, but the amount of bad, and not just some top politics. Society is rotten on many, if not all levels. And there is no hope for change, not for the better for sure.

Eastern Europe, like many other poor places in the world, is depleted of human capital because its simply such a crappy place to live. Its not a conspiracy, rather result of people wanting better lives for themselves and their children.

[tester34]

>Eastern Europe, like many other poor places in the world, is depleted of human capital because its simply such a crappy place to live.

What makes you think that it's crappy place to live (e.g Poland)? except politics

[jq-r]

Because unless you're rich, you're not living, you're surviving. And those are vastly different things.

[trasz]

Apart from economy, healthcare, pensions, schooling, and law enforcement? :-)

Food's good, though.

[tester34]

I do agree that higher edu institutions tend to be mehh unless you attend country's top, but law enforcement?

what do you mean? fighting corruption?

[trasz]

Poland's top universities - both of them - are at the very end of international rankings. As for law enforcement - it's just horribly ineffective. A trivial open and shut software piracy case can last a decade.

[tester34]

>Poland's top universities - both of them - are at the very end of international rankings.

It's hard to compare universities, unless you have attended both of them

Innovation output != Quality of teaching

Polish "computer-related" people are very often in top when it comes to e.g security (src: https://ctftime.org/) and top universities grads tends to have open doors to faang

I've seen people from both of those groups speaking very good about the schools they attended

[trasz]

Polish "computer-related people" can come out well even without graduating. This doesn't say much about universities.

Let me put this way: I know people who graduated in Computer Science, in Poland, who can't program. Not in some particular language; they can't write programs, they just don't quite get the idea.

[ipatec]

>Western companies come to Hungary because its cheap force, despite being generally lower quality than west

I doubt the average Hungarian is of "lower quality" than the average Belgian (I live in Belgium and I lived in Romania and UK as well) - when it comes to people doing manufacturing jobs you refer to I'd say that E Europe has a more solid and reliable human capital.

>in the east, there aren't enough big domestic companies that would be successful and employ people

Before the collapse of communism E Europe was perfectly capable to keep all their population in employment. Sure those companies were not prepared to compete in an open market and were decimated by their Western counter-parts. Today E Europe cannot strong competitors (although that is changing in sectors like IT) primarily due to the open market (impossible to compete with somebody that has 10x your capital; even when some promising E European actor appears, gets acquired by some W European company before it manages to pass a certain size)

But besides the point, check the unemployment rate in any E European country and most fair way better than their Wester coutner-parts.

> Eastern Europe, like many other poor places in the world, is depleted of human capital because its simply such a crappy place to live.

Quite a broad unsubstantiated statement. What is crappy? The fact that most people are able to own a house while in countries like Belgium is getting impossible to buy anything for young people? The nature? The job opportunities that are plenty due to continuous and fast growth? I don't recall last time a new large corporation entered Brussels in the past 10 years.

The main issue is that there is a salary gap. A middle class salary in Hungary gives you a similar standard of living and lifestyle as a middle class salary in Belgium. But working in Belgium temporarily and planning a return to let's say Hungary... gives you an even better potential lifestyle. That is the issue. The gaps were too big to have an open market and there's little focus on closing the gaps.