[ffffwe3rq352y3]

You didn't mention this but playing games is also in the"good enough" zone now. Steams Proton is absolutely amazing and you can play almost any single player games with zero problems and most multiplayer games with no anti cheat!

[shrimp_emoji]

>games with no anti cheat!

Games that don't require kernel-level anti-cheat software.

Not sure which problem needs fixing there. Shudders

[_flux]

Well, cheaters arguably reduce the enjoyment of people who don't cheat. So it seems something that would be nice to fix.

And it's basically impossible to fix perfectly. Having kernel co-operate with the anti-cheating tool seems to make the problem tractable.

What is your alternative solution to this problem?

It will be interesting to see how Valve will address this issue, given they've stated interest in solving this in co-operation with the anti-cheat vendors—and it will be surprising if the solution won't involve kernel-level code.

Linux kernel license doesn't have the anti-tivoization clause and if they "just" provide a secure way from boot to anti-cheat code with hardware-assisted ability to hold keys, they could have a solution even if the system is completely open.

[ffffwe3rq352y3]

Obviously this is a very complex issue with many different (all valid) views. I feel the main reason against kernel level anti cheat is that its just not worth the risk! People will always find new ways to cheat with or without kernel level protection. However, it does seem to be working well for valorant! (I don't play it so no idea how accurate this article is)

https://valorantstrike.com/valorant-cheaters-how-good-is-val...

[an_opabinia]

Nobody will be playing a competitive FPS with joysticks when the user also owns a PC.

[magnetowasright]

Proton has been brilliant.

I’m really keen to see if the Steam Deck can help gain any ground with online multiplayer games or stupid drm stuff that prevents people from running their favourite AAA games on Linux. I’m not hugely optimistic that much progress can be made but I can dream, right?

[cameronbrown]

This and the recent Steam Deck news makes me think we might have a few million Linux gamers soon. That might even be enough to tempt software support from the traditional vendors like Adobe.

[solarkraft]

I kinda doubt many Deck owners are planning to do creative work on it, though then again it does have the power of a mid-level laptop …

[cameronbrown]

Maybe. I think it will solve the bootstrapping problem of all games being Linux compatible. The demand for proper software might not be far behind.

[MeinBlutIstBlau]

For me personally, the fact that it's basically a portable gaming handheld raspberry pi is enough for me to consider buying it.

[an_opabinia]

The Steam Deck is as much Linux as Android is. The reason it will be a better gaming platform is because the users that will buy it will be rich, whereas that is not true generally of Android. This is just my perspective, but it should also inform you why it has no impact on software vendors to make professional software for Android, which makes hundreds of millions of Linux gamers, because an iPad too is a much more expensive device despite lower market share and hence worthwhile to target.

[29083011397778]

Android may be a poor analogy, as it runs the Linux kernel, but uses a very different userland. The Steamdeck, on the other hand, runs mainline Arch with (I believe) a KDE-based DE that comes pre-configured to boot directly to Steam.

[salamandersauce]

No? The Steam Deck runs an Arch derivative with a KDE plasma desktop. It basically just defaults to Steam Big Picture mode. You can alt-tab out of a game and open the Linux version of Chrome in your KDE desktop environment and you can see just that in the IGN hands on video.

[cameronbrown]

I would challenge the assertion that Android hasn't had an impact on software support for Linux.

For example, most game engines and hundreds of pieces of middleware are generally supporting Linux now (site note: middleware was IME the worst part about porting games to Linux, only second to the graphics stack), even if just for Android games. Vulcan rendering is widely supported for a similar reason.

You are right about userland though, and what excites me is this might be the first mainstream device with a traditional Linux desktop setup. Even if people aren't going to be running Photoshop, they will run Discord, and they will likely be hungry for other software after that.

[Thaxll]

"almost"

Looked at two games I play, AC Valhalla and Hitman 3, they don't work.

Proton "works" but does not replace Windows and never will.

[solarkraft]

Never? Proton has already replaced Windows for some and I don‘t think it’s going to become any weaker. Valve keeps pushing and making pretty good progress: Even games with anti cheat software are expected to work some time soon.

The Steam console was too early, but the Steam Deck might give Linux gaming a good push (even though I expect many users will install Windows, ha) and shows how committed Valve is to gaming on Linux.

[zamalek]

> Even games with anti cheat software are expected to work some time soon.

I'm extremely excited about this, but there is a very sad reality check: anti-cheat vendors have pointed out that a hackable kernel breaks their model. They will most likely aim to detect and block WINE execution.

[ffffwe3rq352y3]

I mean of course not all games work! But for me personally literally every single game I wanted to play works! Everyone's experience is different. I mostly play single player games.

https://www.protondb.com/

If you change it to single player you can see 81% of the top 1000 games are compatible and 90% of the top 100 are as well.

If you don't do single player its still around 76% for top 1000. Top 10 is 50%

Also just noticed that hitman 2 (Three isn't listed for some reason) does work!

[Zababa]

I think the problem is that Hitman 3 is only on the epic store, while Hitman 1 and 2 are on steam.

[simion314]

I love the ProtonDb comments but I am disgusted by the misleading tagging. Like a title marked Platinum will not work out of the box (need various workarounds like copying dlls around, custom flags) , Gold titles will often require custom Proton versions so is IMO an advanced feature, so who the hell is pushing this misleading labels and numbers is IMO making us the Linux users a bunch of dudes that we trick people to believe that things just work.

[techrat]

There's a reason they don't work: Both use incredibly invasive always online DRM. (Despite being single player games!) Even on Windows people have trouble getting both working.

[MeinBlutIstBlau]

If you play AAA games that are pretty new you're experience will definitely suffer. If you play anything older than 2015-ish and doesn't require another software center to play a game (ubisoft or origin) then it's usually pretty good.

[PenguinCoder]

Weird, AC Valhalla works better for me on Linux than Windows l. Performance is better.

[smoldesu]

I played Hitman 2 on Proton without issue, I highly doubt that Hitman 3 doesn't work for some reason.

[alisonkisk]

Your speculation is less informative then someone's evidence.

[smoldesu]

Here's some evidence then:

https://github.com/derrod/legendary/wiki/Hitman-3-Guide

https://software.kaminata.net/linux-wine-games/hitman-3-linu...

https://youtu.be/luo_xMfOtAU