[keymone]

waste is subjective

[lottin]

Waste is not subjective. If the minimum cost to achieve a goal is X, and it costs you Y (where Y > X) to achieve it, you're wasting Y - X.

[keymone]

sure, but it is subjective what is the goal and what is it's value.

[lottin]

What the goal is is not subjective either, and its value is irrelevant for the purposes of this calculation.

[keymone]

how is goal not subjective? do you know what my goal is without me telling you? demonstrate please.

[lottin]

Somebody's goal is not a matter of taste or personal opinion, but a fact. If my goal is X, then this what my goal is, and that is independent of opinions and perceptions.

[keymone]

> Somebody's goal is not a matter of taste or personal opinion

citation needed

> If my goal is X, then this what my goal is

does this not strike you as circular? :)

[lottin]

It seems that you're just trying to waste my time without providing a counterargument, so I'll leave it here.

[user-the-name]

Using 0.1% of all the energy produced on the entire planet to do seven transactions per second, something a single desktop computer from 2004 could handle just fine on its own, is not a waste that is "subjective".

It is the most outlandishly, ridiculously wasteful that humanity has ever produced. There is nothing in the history of mankind that comes even close to this level of utterly deranged waste.

[keymone]

Most of that energy would not have been produced and it’s orders of mignutude more tps.

[user-the-name]

It literally is seven transactions per second, that is all that Bitcoin can do.

Actually it's even less than that in practice. It really is that shit.

[keymone]

Nope, it’s probably in millions per second already, read about lightning network.

[user-the-name]

I am very familiar with the lightning network. It only exists in toy form. What currently exists can not scale, and nobody know how to make it scale.

As it exists, it does not work beyond the toy levels of usage it is seeing today.

[keymone]

a toy form with 1800BTC ($54mil) only in public channels. i don't think you're familiar with it at all, it scales very well because payments are actual peer to peer, don't need to be globally broadcast and checkpointed. millions tps.