[kerkeslager]

My previous post was a bit too glib, so here's an explanation:

There's a common belief on Hacker News which verges on mental illness, that the best solution to any problem is free market capitalism. This belief is false because free market capitalism doesn't solve problems when the customer isn't the person with the problem.

The problem in this case is a chicken-and-egg problem: it's hard to get money without an education, and it's hard to get an education without money.

For-profit education cannot solve the problem, because for-profit education is the problem. If the customer is the student, then that means people without money can't be students. If you start letting people without money be students, then the customer is someone else, and the customer's incentives will always be misaligned with the student's interests in some ways. There simply isn't a way to fix this which makes any sense and still includes for-profit education.

[Joky]

> The problem in this case is a chicken-and-egg problem: it's hard to get money without an education, and it's hard to get an education without money. > For-profit education cannot solve the problem, because for-profit education is the problem.

Have you seen school that only gets paid after you start working (and based on a percentage of your salary), for example: https://www.holbertonschool.com I like the concept in that these school are somehow "investing" in the student: they only get as successful as the student is.

[kerkeslager]

This is exactly what I mean when I talk about misaligned incentives. Making money isn't the only reason people want an education, but that's the only thing Holberton is going to prepare students for, because that's how Holberton makes their money.

This is reflected in what Holberton offers: if I'm understanding correctly, they offer 7 different kinds of computer programming and 0 different kinds of pre-med, elementary education, psychology, etc. While nobody would argue that these aren't necessary components of our society, they don't fit Holberton's business model--a student with an elementary ed degree doesn't walk out of Holberton and start making close to six figures with which to pay Holberton back.

There's nothing wrong with having a more focused school, of course, but realize that the way Holberton is getting around the chicken-and-egg problem I'm talking about is by picking a field of education where there isn't a chicken-and-egg problem: you don't need a degree to work in computer programming. And in fact, you don't need to take classes at Holberton: I know two different programs that will pay you to learn computer programming, instead of you paying. This has done exactly nothing to solve the problem I'm talking about: it just avoids it.

[hackermailman]

Yes many of these schools exist like 'lambda school' where they siphon your income for x years. Holberton website is filled with dark patterns requiring personal information and logging in to see any fees so if anybody is wondering it's $85k for 2 years, 60+ hours per week (so covering own cost of living for 2 years), and they can siphon your income 17% per month for 42 months so 3.5 years. It's not clear if this is gross or net but it's almost always gross siphoning for these shady schools. There is also absolutely no proof you will be employed after or that anybody will recognize your education as you do not receive credentials.

No regionally accepted credential means don't invest your money at all, ever, no matter what they promise. You go to a plumbing trade school they give you a regionally accepted credential so you can work, never trust these outfits they end up costing the same as a state school so just go to the state school and get your credentials.

If you want to take 2 years off to teach yourself watch MIT free lectures and contribute the entire time to open source software. There you get people auditing your code, experience working as a 'team' or whatever. Nobody takes $85k from you.