[motohagiography]

What outcome does a domestic vaccine passport achieve? I work in health information privacy, where regulations were written to prevent that specific situation. There's no denying it's a proxy for political positions, so the case for it needs to be clear, especially in a world where people say in public that it is "irresponsible," to entertain critical opinions.

What problem does a domestic vaccine passport solve?

[JumpCrisscross]

> What problem does a domestic vaccine passport solve?

The same problem the Yellow Card [1] solves. Right now, I have a New York State electronic passport and a CDC paper proof of vaccination. The former works in New York City. The latter works across the U.S., at least now. (At least, it worked in San Francisco and Atlanta.) If I travel abroad, I may need to get the latter re-certified since it's trivial to forge and not independently verifiable. Having a single, authoritative document fixes all this and makes socializing and commerce more frictionless.

If we don't want to go into another lockdown when the Delta variant hits, we need to be able to isolate the vaccinated from the vulnerable. The former can continue mixing and mingling with reduced (though not zero) risk of causing a flare-up. The latter, I don't know, ideally they'd stay home but we know that won't happen.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carte_Jaune

[motohagiography]

I would bet a huge personal sum that if there were a federal legal guarantee of no vaccine passports, hesitancy would evaporate overnight, and every single SMART health leak and backdoor regulation to enable them is creating an increasingly hard core and radicalized resistance movement.

Yellow card is for some international travel and school enrollment. It is not a vaccine passport, so while I appreciate engaging the question, it's not clear that this is the same use case. Nobody asks an adult for their measles vaccination status in a normal domestic interaction like a concert, train, office, etc.

I think most people should get vaccinated and we can all move on with our lives, however, I also think a generalized vaccine passport for domestic use is an abomination with inevitable and horrific consequences, and so I am trying to get a sense of what the sincere case for it is. If it's just leveraging the crisis to institute bureaucratic social controls, I'll be the most reasonable man on the barricades.

We need a better "why" that is actually true, and not a cynical "noble lie," (like masks/no-masks was), because when you actually get off the internet and talk to people, it's the percieved lies and the attitudes of the people who tell them that are creating the hesitancy.

If a covid-unvaccinated person goes into a stadium or bar full of covid-vaccinated people, what is the effect? The only way the shots get more traction is with a clear and honest answer to that, imo.

[r00fus]

> There's no denying it's a proxy for political positions

What does that mean? Vaccination is not a political position in most other countries - it's just a policy goal at a national level.

The goal would be to give local governments and businesses an approved way to understand who has received the vaccine so they could open up safely.

[motohagiography]

Again, what is the effect of a covid-unvaccinated person entering a room full of covid-vaccinated people? We need clarity on that message.

Some people just aren't motivated by fear or shame, and so for a universal campaign to succeed, we need to appeal to those peoples' sense of reason.

[r00fus]

Let's flip that around: what is the effect of an asymptomatic COVID sufferer entering a room of people (some of whom are vaccinated vs. some who are not)?

Children aren't currently eligible for any vaccine, and some immunocompromised people can't get the vaccine.

I disagree reason is somehow going to overpower the conspiracy machine. Rules and consequences speak directly to those too greedy to vaccinate or are petrified by fear of some conspiracy theorized takeover.

[motohagiography]

Two things, if you don't think you can reason with them you aren't going to to try very hard so why bother, which is precisely their objection - but the second is, sure, given everyone who wishes and needs to be vaccinated can get it, what is the effect of an asymtpomatic carrier?

I'm saying it does not justify a relationship where people show vaccine passport ID everywhere they go. Greed is a pretty coarse rationale, I'd suggest it's on the critic to be more persuasive. Conflating the arguments against passports with arguments against vaccination is too disingenuous to accuse someone of, but if someone did't see the difference, it sort of ceases to be an intellectual discussion at that point. So what is the effect?

[baq]

you'd have to argue about what is the right question to ask first, i'm afraid. that might be a difficult discussion if vaccines are a religious/political topic (i.e. emotional and belief-based instead of skeptical logic).