[r00fus]

> There's no denying it's a proxy for political positions

What does that mean? Vaccination is not a political position in most other countries - it's just a policy goal at a national level.

The goal would be to give local governments and businesses an approved way to understand who has received the vaccine so they could open up safely.

[motohagiography]

Again, what is the effect of a covid-unvaccinated person entering a room full of covid-vaccinated people? We need clarity on that message.

Some people just aren't motivated by fear or shame, and so for a universal campaign to succeed, we need to appeal to those peoples' sense of reason.

[r00fus]

Let's flip that around: what is the effect of an asymptomatic COVID sufferer entering a room of people (some of whom are vaccinated vs. some who are not)?

Children aren't currently eligible for any vaccine, and some immunocompromised people can't get the vaccine.

I disagree reason is somehow going to overpower the conspiracy machine. Rules and consequences speak directly to those too greedy to vaccinate or are petrified by fear of some conspiracy theorized takeover.

[motohagiography]

Two things, if you don't think you can reason with them you aren't going to to try very hard so why bother, which is precisely their objection - but the second is, sure, given everyone who wishes and needs to be vaccinated can get it, what is the effect of an asymtpomatic carrier?

I'm saying it does not justify a relationship where people show vaccine passport ID everywhere they go. Greed is a pretty coarse rationale, I'd suggest it's on the critic to be more persuasive. Conflating the arguments against passports with arguments against vaccination is too disingenuous to accuse someone of, but if someone did't see the difference, it sort of ceases to be an intellectual discussion at that point. So what is the effect?

[baq]

you'd have to argue about what is the right question to ask first, i'm afraid. that might be a difficult discussion if vaccines are a religious/political topic (i.e. emotional and belief-based instead of skeptical logic).