[trotFunky]

The thing is, you can change a lot of those things to match what you want. You can toggle the application menu, which works more like the windows menu. You can use something like dash-to-panel [0] to make the top bar into something useful. I know that in Firefox you can disable the window bar to make it look a lot cleaner with a top bar. Here is a screenshot of how my GNOME looks [1]. I don't have the application menu because I use an app launcher, so it doesn't bother me that much.

That's an investment you have to make if you want it to look like you want to. Maybe you just want to have a DE that works for you without tweaking it, which I understand. But I'm pretty sure you could make a GNOME desktop you like given the time.

Having tested multiple desktop environment and window managers, it's pretty great having such a diverse pool of choices : you can really ditch GNOME completely if you don't like it.

[0] : https://github.com/home-sweet-gnome/dash-to-panel#features

[1] : https://i.imgur.com/NRegvAo.png (The orange on the left is me failing to crop my left monitor correctly)

[eqvinox]

The problem isn't that you can't configure GNOME to behave to your preferences. The problem is that GNOME makes it hard to do so, and that's a philosophical decision the project made.

If I'm about to spend time customizing my DE to match my preferences and habits, I'd much rather spend the time on something that is made to be customizable.

[zxzax]

I don't think that actually is a problem though. For specific GNOME apps it's true, they tend to avoid having a lot of configuration settings. You can just avoid using those apps and use other ones.

The one part you can't replace is the shell, but you can pretty much configure every aspect of that using extensions. If you don't like the way the shell operates on a fundamental level, then you would probably be better served by using a different desktop.

[eqvinox]

You're making my point for me. You're suggesting I spend additional time cobbling together extensions (which presumably can end up unmaintained and/or break?) and swap out some applications.

This feels like ordering paella at a restaurant when I don't like seafood. Sure, I can eat around all the sea bits. But there's lots of other options at this restaurant, so why the f* would I order paella, knowing it has seafood I don't like?

I'm not gonna tell you not to order the paella, or that the paella is bad, or that the restaurant is bad, or whatever. But don't push the paella on me either please ;)

[zxzax]

I'm not sure I understand the point -- that's a different complaint entirely. The "cobbling together extensions and swapping out applications" is the customization, that's exactly what you asked for initially.

Edit: If the issue is that some extensions break and become unmaintained sometimes, that's unfortunate, but the only other solution there would actually be to put heavy limits on the extension API. Which would probably not be to your liking either because it would actually reduce customizability.

[Nursie]

The issue is that you have to install extensions, and that configurability has been deliberately removed, creating an inflexible and opinionated DE.

The problem is not that the extension API is too wide in scope, it's that you need to use an extension API at all to change even simple things.

[zxzax]

I'm afraid I don't understand -- the extensions are configurability. That hasn't been removed. If you didn't have an API to configure these things, there would be no way to do it at all, so it still sounds like you're asking for something contradictory. What would help here? What would be the benefit of removing the extension API, and what would you replace it with?

[vbezhenar]

One issue with extension is that it's not official. For example from the very extension you linked (dash-to-panel) I can find out, that Gnome 40 support issue (#1265) is not closed. Gnome 40 was released almost 3 months ago and it is default in Fedora 34. Imagine someone upgrading and breaking his workflows completely.

That would be OK for some minor adjustments, when user can live without this extension for a while. But for something as major as dash-to-panel, it should be official and updated synchronously with main project to be a proper option IMO. That's my reason to avoid this extension for now. It might be good, but I don't want to depend on it.

[trotFunky]

That's fair, and I agree it would be much better if it was officially supported. I'm on a rolling release distro but I had to freeze all my GNOME packages to stay on 38 because of the issue you mention.

But I chose GNOME knowing they have a tendency to break a lot of extensions with new versions, which is honestly quite a pain and something I understand many (if not most!) don't want to deal with.