[skak]

The only reason people on HN have hate for the post office is they are influenced by capitalists who want another industry to “disrupt.” American oligarchs have been declaring war on public services since the New Deal, and over time American workers have sadly been propagandized to buy into it.

As a result, the U.S. Post Office is not what it used to be (it used to offer banking services!!!) but it’s still one of the best things we have left. Not to mention its glowing record of equal employment.

[handrous]

Someone on HN once mentioned that anti-USPO plays are likely aimed at "freeing up" all the prime real estate the USPO owns in cities all over the country for private buyers, which was the thing that finally made some people and groups' evident hate and ill-wishing for the post office make sense to me. I'm sure killing some competition is also a factor for certain interests, but that was never enough, I thought, to explain all the forces working against them.

[skak]

The real estate effort makes sense because it gives an objective to organize around. In the case I made, I should probably elaborate. I don’t think there are many groups of people wanting to take over mail delivery for profit, or that those groups are terribly committed. I think it more often serves as an ideological punching bag that represents public services in general. The USPS is often cited in arguments for why public healthcare supposedly can never work, for example, despite it’s success in most developed nations. This depends on attacking public services in general. Currently, maintaining this sentiment for the private sector against the public sector is important to the effort to withhold IP of the coronavirus vaccine from the third world. IP laws are often complained about by HN readers, but IP itself is not. This conflict between regulation and anarchy is an eternal contradiction in the entrepreneurial pursuit, but public services which serve working people equally are ideologically beyond the pale, enemies of the entrepreneurial spirit.

[zentiggr]

The inherent contradiction between

-- "let me do anything I want, I want to succeed and be huge!"

-- "make sure I can stop anyone that wants to do the same thing, I want to be the only one to succeed and be huge!"

[mech422]

I have hate for the post office because I get like 1 legitimate piece of mail a month, yet the post office is constantly stuffing those stupid supermarket flyers in my box with no opt-out.

So I got a PO Box...Aaaannnd of course the P.O. couldn't forward that 1 piece of mail properly :-p

so yeah - I find them useless and actively avoid any items that will be delivered by them (eg 'e-packet' stuff from aliexpress is a no go)

[technofiend]

Interesting. I literally never get flyers of any kind in my po box. I used to get them at home but opted out using the usual process.

Weirdly I have the opposite experience using foreign delivery services: my wife buys items from Japan regularly that come DHL and I've never lost one. But I don't use my po box to forward mail, just receive it.

https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Refuse-unwanted-mail-and-remo...

[mech422]

Unless its changed - you can't refuse stuff addressed to 'occupant' like supermarket flyers. You can remove your _name_ from mailing lists, but that wasnt' my issue. So I got a 'PO Box' from a local ups store type place. Now I don't get junk mail.

Maybe the difference is due to my "PO Box" actually being at a store and not an actual Post Office? It's at a local ups store/mailboxes etc. type store, so the Post Office would actually have to forward the mail, not just drop it in a PO Box on premise.

[sneak]

Replace "disrupt" with "replace with an improved version" and you have accurately characterized my view.

The USPS does an absolutely terrible job, by objective measure. Many of their locations are significantly understaffed, with 30-60 minute waits for basic services (for paying customers!). Rude, unhelpful employees are the norm.

Why should package and letter delivery be a public service? Their approach is not working.

[brendoelfrendo]

With the exception of wait times for in-person service, I don't really get the impression that the USPS does a worse job than any other delivery service. Mail arrives consistently, on time, and at competitive prices.

> Why should package and letter delivery be a public service?

Because everyone needs equal access to those services. Everyone, no exceptions, regardless of how profitable it is or not.

[spfzero]

For most shipments in the weight categories I use, USPS is the least expensive. It's as reliable as Fed Ex or UPS in my experience. I do go into the post office fairly regularly, and have a PO box as well. Everyone's nice enough, they can answer pretty much any question you have. They're experienced, career employees, rather than franchisees. Yes, you usually have to wait in line for some things, but they have kiosks for simple tasks.

I'm sure others will have had other anecdotal experiences, both bad and good, that's just the nature of a large organization. I've lived in several different cities over time and USPS has been consistently fine.

[sneak]

> Mail arrives consistently, on time, and at competitive prices.

That's absolutely not true in most parts of their coverage area, especially the extremely dense ones (for example in Manhattan). With FedEx, it is.

> Because everyone needs equal access to those services. Everyone, no exceptions, regardless of how profitable it is or not.

This, even if we take its premise on faith, seems like an argument for subsidy, not necessarily a publicly operated service like the USPS. Food access is required for all people but we don't have government farms, we give people food credits. We have private hospitals and Medicaid, for another example.

I'm also not sold on the idea that in 2021 (that is, email, webapps, and government subsidized smartphones with browsers and government subsidized network service) that equal access to postal mail is the necessity it once was. Many services now are unusable without an email address, and while they require a postal address the stuff there can be ignored forever if you can access the website and receive email.

[midasuni]

> Because everyone needs equal access to those services. Everyone, no exceptions, regardless of how profitable it is or not.

I can see that argument about food, water, healthcare, maybe even electricity and internet but postal services? It’s pretty low down the “need” pyramid.

[technofiend]

You'll never please everyone: any replacement service will have the same complaints magnified by the fact they'll be unable to operate at the post office's scale. My local post office can have lines but they greet me and any other regular by name. They're also down the street from me. In fact there are several within a three mile radius and that's a good thing.

My experience going to FedEx and other post office competitors is the polar opposite. Everyone there is pissed off they're forced to schlep across the city to some grubby terminal staffed by permanently disaffected employees. FedEx is fortunately a couple of miles away but if I'm forced to go to UPS that's a ten mile drive and DHL is more like 23 miles and that's in traffic because I'm not taking a day off for a package pick up.

So I don't agree aggregation down to a few physical places for package pick up when otherwise service will be for me worse and equally bad or worse for everyone else is an improvement. The only change will be a publicly traded company will be chasing new levels of poorer service every quarter because their #1 duty is not to their customers but their shareholders. It's exactly the opposite of what you want in a customer-facing service.

You only have to look at customer ratings of the local competitors to see what the public thinks of corporate run delivery services now. They hate them. I am skeptical yet another delivery service could improve much less disrupt anything, other than ruin a public service. Hate the post office? Then engage in the political process and help it improve.

[sio8ohPi]

As someone who loves to complain about the post office, you're way overthinking it. There's no conspiracy. I just hate spam.

[mech422]

Exactly - especially in the age of online billing and e-statements, the stupid super market flyers filling up my box for nothing is annoying as hell.

I got a PO Box, not that my local P.O. seems to be able to actually honor a change of address form. And I actively avoid anything that uses postal delivery. I'm much happier now :-P

[AlexandrB]

When I was a kid, I had a job delivering spam. A lot it does not come from the post office but from other delivery services.

[pjc50]

Don't forget the people trying to destroy it so they can prevent postal voting in certain counties.