[rriepe]

They're just narcissists.

Projection: I'm a virgin so I want virginal women.

The other type of projection: I want nice girls so I should be a "nice guy."

Impossibly high standards and sense of entitlement: The point is rejecting to get a sense of power or self.

Complaining: They'll complain about outcomes but never offer solutions.

The incel community is more about attacking untruths. It's like a negatively-defined idea that's close to the truth, but I wouldn't call it a kernel.

[dnautics]

> I'm a virgin so I want virginal women.

I have interacted with women that wanted virgin men (not to mention being surprised at the excitement of the woman who took my virginity, I am pretty sure in the end it was not a fantastic experience for her, though we're still friends). I was friend of a bride for a wedding where the man had never even kissed a woman before (the officiant embarassingly brought it up during the ceremony), and was told privately by the bride that this was a plus.

> want nice girls so I should be a "nice guy."

This is one of the axes where the incels are correct, women since time immemorial have say they want "nice guys". Why would you (publically) say anything else? It's a very pro-social stance to take. I'm not sure that women's preferences actually take nice-guy-dom into account. OTOH, incels insistence that women exclusively like bad guys is probably overreach, though definitely nice guys tend to be less assertive which is very likely a negative quality for the modal heterosexual woman, and since sampling rate matters for raw success dating and sex dynamics, it exacerbates the illusion.

(The other axis where the incels are correct is the myth of "there's someone for everyone". Yeah, we should kill that one with fire.)

> The point is rejecting to get a sense of power or self.

I could be convinced but I'm not sure. I think this is more of a PUA thing.

> They'll complain about outcomes but never offer solutions.

Very true.

[rriepe]

I'm a Christian so I know all about the "I'm a virgin and want a virgin" thing and couldn't approve more. Just... healthy expressions of it. The complete production people put on when a 25+ virgin is discovered is shameful, not for the virgin but for everyone acting it out. I hope I didn't imply I subscribe to any of that. But that being wrong is still an example of calling out an untruth. It isn't a truth unto itself.

> I could be convinced but I'm not sure. I think this is more of a PUA thing.

There will usually be something like a PUA nearby torturing or exploiting them with demands and expectations, yeah. Narcissists form vicious hierarchies. Incels are just the ones at the bottom. You have to subscribe to the gymbro's ideas/values before he can 'win points' torturing you about gains or whatever. They're both obsessed with looking in the mirror. One just likes what he sees so he ends up higher in the pyramid. They both project their own self-image (bad or good) onto the expectations of others.

Lots of people think of narcissism as an after-the-fact thing but it's not. It's a pattern that anyone can be in, ugly or beautiful, rich or poor. Incels are unsuccessful narcissists; PUAs are successful narcissists. You're right to see a pattern.

In simplest terms, narcissism is an addiction to deeming things not good enough. The three flavors of targets are family/friends/SOs (covert), things (megalomania) and groups of people (grandiose). Incels are basically grandiose narcissists that can't back it up with any form of societal success.