[kumarvvr]

  Workplace wellbeing

  Wholesome workplace

  Workplace is a family

and a myriad of other touchy-feely terms are just plain bullshit. Whole industries have cropped up to support the efforts of managements to keep workforces in control and deflect resentment (people don't leave companies, they leave managers ! and other crap)

The ground reality is when the company feels you are not needed, all that touch-feely stuff goes down the drain.

No, my company is not my family. I may have good friends and great co-workers, but, at the end of the day, I only have the amount of loyalty to the company, as much as it has towards me.

Perhaps its time the internet comes up with training sessions that promote the real face of large corporations.

[wiz21c]

I totally agree. I mean, nobody cares that I agree. But I have been hurt so much by all that bullshit that readin your comment makes me better.

Now I have this question for all the HR departments who engage in spreading those "touchy feely" terms : either you do realize that there's a problem with that, then why do you go on spreading it OR you don't realize there's a problem, then why do you feel those terms are acceptable for the employees ?

I honestly ask. Because all of that looks to me as a total intellectual scam. And usually, when I think this way, either there's really a scam, either my system of values is completely at odds with reality (and I need to understand my blind spot)

[Frost1x]

>I honestly ask. Because all of that looks to me as a total intellectual scam.

Most upper corporate messaging I've seen is an intellectual scam or intellectual dishonesty (be it HR or any department), although I'd say that's putting it far too politely.

These are typically well educated and skilled individuals that aren't oblivious of reality. They have careers and want to maintain them, so they maintain the corproate narratives that work and pass responsibility for lower level managers to maintain plausible deniability as to why efforts seem disingenuous. There are strategies to any of these moves or messaging and rarely ever are they in anyone's interest but the business unless you coincidentally have interest alignment with the business.

It's a lot easier in business (perhaps in life) to strategically lie and achieve measures of success than to be honest and be successful.

I am completely and utterly cynical of any piece of information and communication passed off by corporate entities or those who have heavy sway in their control and direction. They have far too much incentive and motive to be intellectually dishonest and little-to-none to be honest. Even apparently benign information is often strategically crafted, reviewed, and re-reviewed before passed off with very carefully chosen wording. It's not until you get to the underlying employees that I have any trust in what they say.

HR honestly seems like a terrible career to me if you actually care about people in modern business environments (I couldn't do it). You're essentially powerless in terms of business decisions and more often than not act as damage control between what business management unilaterally decides to do and how it effects employees. If your goal pursuing an HR career was to improve wellbeing of employees, it seems like a career where you'd be in for quite a culture shock in most environments. Of course they also serve to maintain and smooth out other legal compliancey issues and staffing needs.

[mtberatwork]

I believe from the company's perspective it's viewed as a mechanism for reducing insurances costs.

[lazide]

The reality is that you can be arbitrarily harsh and negative , or arbitrarily positive to the point of delusion about basically any situation or set of circumstances. This isn’t theoretical, get a decent set of people (100?), put them in a specific circumstance and it’s quite apparent.

What is also apparent is that there are clearly objective differences in the ability of collections of people to thrive (or even barely cope) with the same set of circumstances based on the mindsets from the people composing the team. A good read to bring these into sharp focus is the book written on Shackleton’s voyage with the ‘Endurance’. ‘These mindsets are also clearly ‘contagious’ once they hit a certain point.

If a team hits a certain tipping point and is able to look at their circumstances and smile, it is self reinforcing. They’ll be able to face hardship productively, work together despite differences, and everyone will be better off. If no matter how good it is, they’re going to be miserable - that is also self reinforcing. It will be miserable for everyone, and the only people who stay will be those who feel at home in misery.

Being miserable is also associated with worse health, personal relationship issues, higher insurance costs, absenteeism, turnover, difficulty retaining key talent, etc.

The company wants (and often needs) people that work hard regardless of the circumstances, that will find a way to make a situation positive and productive, etc. This can be abused. Even when not abused, the company needs people who can tackle problems to solve customer needs to survive (quite plainly).

If a company is well managed, they are able to make this a mutually beneficial situation without it lapsing into co-dependence or abuse on either side. Not very many companies are well managed. Partially because it is really hard, partially because American culture doesn’t seem to value or recognize proper management skills and the importance they have.

Covid has turned the screws and also pushed a lot of people into negative territory. This means a lot of companies that were near a tipping point before are now clearly over it - as are a whole lot of people.

[duckfang]

It's also a great way to garner fake empathy and "create" a better working environment than you really have. People with lower/average mental faculties are more susceptible to these kinds of doublespeak.

Its like those oil commercials of "We care, we really do", showing a few ducks being wiped off from some horrid oil spill disaster, and doing nothing to solve the root cause.

[mtberatwork]

> Workplace is a family

This one is the biggest eye roll for me. Family and friends don't give performance reviews and push other such metrics down your throat.

[throwamon]

> Family and friends don't give performance reviews and push other such metrics down your throat

Oh, but society sure is hard at work moving towards this.

Edit: I'm short of time, but as someone asked me to elaborate, I'll briefly give a few examples:

- "Networking" replacing genuine friendships; related things such as "cut out friends who don't let you grow" which may be valid but usually translates to "replace them with someone who will lead you to material success" (that is, "networking")

- Parents micromanaging their children's lives, measuring their performance on various tasks and rewarding/punishing them accordingly, often without regard to possible underlying issues (e.g. mental illness)

- Parents making children pay rent after they turn 18

- "Tinderification" of relationships, followers as social currency, etc.

My point is basically that family and friends are being replaced by the individual and advertising oneself.

[AussieWog93]

I think middle class society in the West has already reached this stage. I was talking about this the other day with my wife, after stewing about it bitterly for hours into the night.

The most common form of interpersonal interaction has changed from genuine offers of assistance to displays of status and evaluations of said displays.

It's unthinkable to do something as basic as ask your neighbour to "borrow" an egg or bring them some cake just because you have too much. On the other hand, you can sure as hell expect them to let you know that what you own isn't good enough.

The obvious conclusion to this shift, which is already playing out, is that people minimise the amount of interaction with others and we all become lonelier.

[kenjackson]

> It's unthinkable to do something as basic as ask your neighbour to "borrow" an egg or bring them some cake just because you have too much.

Really? This is a common occurrence in my neighborhood. Like it happens almost weekly. Is this really unthinkable in other areas? If so, we probably shouldn’t move.

[chasd00]

some people are jerks. period. If you were stewing on this for a couple hours then you probably had a bad experience earlier in the day with someone. Not everyone is like that, in fact, jerks are sort of rare but they do exist.

[AussieWog93]

>If you were stewing on this for a couple hours then you probably had a bad experience earlier in the day with someone

You've hit the nail on the head there, but what made me so angry about it wasn't that it was an out-of-the-ordinary experience but the norm.

[ReactiveJelly]

> The most common form of interpersonal interaction has changed from genuine offers of assistance to displays of status and evaluations of said displays.

I don't actually mind the lack of cake. There's never going to be "too much cake", even if the communists got what they think they want.

I'm not much of a gift-giving person, so if a neighbor brought me cake, I'd feel like I owe them something in return, which is a weird feeling I don't want.

And I don't feel any status pressure, because I never even talk to my neighbors. My lawn looks like shit, my neighbors probably know, who cares.

No, it seems to me the principal component is online vs. offline. The most common form of interpersonal interaction for me, even before 2020, is talking to people online, on Reddit, Discord, or Hacker News.

Most of my neighbors are not people who I really want to be friends with. They're mostly older than me, mostly parents, probably with no shared hobbies or interests. But that's probably not even the result of "modernity" or "The Whest", it's probably because I'm a programmer with no kids who moved into a suburb where people assume you'll eventually have kids.

So the upshot is, I have to drive a long ways if I want to see a friend in-person. Which puts a chilling effect on making friends at all.

I often miss the college dormitories. Everyone is within a few years of age, nobody had children, many people had the same major or similar majors, and everyone was packed in close with no need to drive. But you can't treat a studio apartment as a real estate investment, so Real Adults don't want to live in a place like that.

> The obvious conclusion to this shift, which is already playing out, is that people minimise the amount of interaction with others and we all become lonelier.

Yeah, I don't like it either. But part of me thinks, it's also just becoming obvious how many people are not worth talking to.

[floren]

> I'm not much of a gift-giving person, so if a neighbor brought me cake, I'd feel like I owe them something in return, which is a weird feeling I don't want.

> And I don't feel any status pressure, because I never even talk to my neighbors. My lawn looks like shit, my neighbors probably know, who cares.

> Most of my neighbors are not people who I really want to be friends with. They're mostly older than me, mostly parents, probably with no shared hobbies or interests.

Lot of assumptions in this post, and they all seem to be coming from you.

[throwaway2037]

"I often miss the college dormitories." Me too, for many of the same reasons. I think my social life was most interesting during my dormitory days!

[yoz-y]

> But you can't treat a studio apartment as a real estate investment

Why? In cities with universities a studio will rent out immediately and has the best cost to rent ratio (at least where I live)

[TeMPOraL]

> I don't actually mind the lack of cake. There's never going to be "too much cake", even if the communists got what they think they want.

There's always "too much cake" if someone in your household cooks.

Cooking and baking are more efficient when doing larger quantities. In our case, whenever my wife feels like baking, half of it goes to one or two of our neighbors, because there's no way the two of us would eat an oven shelf's worth of cake (and conversely, baking just enough for the two of us feels like a huge waste of time). Just having that option - neighbors who like my wife's baking and are happy to reciprocate with their own - means more good stuff is being made at home and enjoyed by everyone, on top of building good relations with the neighbors[0].

Local cooperation and sharing is a good thing. I think communists/collectivists were wrong in forcing people to share, against their will.

> Most of my neighbors are not people who I really want to be friends with. They're mostly older than me, mostly parents, probably with no shared hobbies or interests. But that's probably not even the result of "modernity" or "The Whest", it's probably because I'm a programmer with no kids who moved into a suburb where people assume you'll eventually have kids.

Being a programmer and having no kids is definitely a factor. Suburbs, probably less so. I've experienced the same in both large (1M+) and small (~20k) cities. I've learned two things, though.

- Kids change things - having a child means you now have a big thing in common with everyone else who has children. You end up bonding with other parents effortlessly - experience of child rearing is a topic that carries you way past ice-breaking stage. And it's worth it, because parenting is challenging, so mutual assistance is worth everyone's weight in gold.

- Being friendly with neighbors isn't about shared hobbies or interests, it's more about being able and willing to offer some assistance. That can be as simple as having a toolbox, or some life-relevant skills[1], or raw strength to help someone push a car, or even just being there[2]. I'm not friends with any of my neighbors, but I have a couple of people I can count on to e.g. borrow some power tools, or to feed our cat when we need to go away for a couple of days. And they can count on us if they need someone to push the car, or have their smartphone checked out. These are all low-maintenance, shallow relationships, that nevertheless simplify day-to-day logistics for everyone involved.

> So the upshot is, I have to drive a long ways if I want to see a friend in-person. Which puts a chilling effect on making friends at all

That's the flip side of suburbs and small towns. I get a lot of weird looks when I say that we want to move back to a large city, from the small one we're in now - everyone seems to go the other way. But honestly, small towns are fucking boring. Even having kids doesn't change that.

> But you can't treat a studio apartment as a real estate investment, so Real Adults don't want to live in a place like that.

This seems to be changing, though :). Not in the sense of living in one (which is a different topic - Real Adults don't like small apartments simply because they need more space, especially once they have kids), but from what I've seen on my local markets, small apartments are hot stuff. Probably because short-term rentals are very popular now.

--

[0] - For the same reason, I'm happy somebody set up a community fridge ~5 minutes from us. While surprise sweets are always appreciated, a surprise dinner less so - so if we end up cooking more than we feel like eating, we can just package the rest up and anonymously drop it off for the less well-off members of the local community. It's a win-win: it solves the food waste issue for people like us, and people who couldn't afford it otherwise regularly get to eat high-quality homemade food.

[1] - Of which programming currently isn't one - none of your neighbors are likely in need of an app. The adjacent skill of fixing problems with computers & smartphones is in huge demand, though. As much as I hated fixing other people's machines as a teenager, I'm now learning to like it again: it's the one skill I can offer to my community.

[2] - For example, I have nothing in common with any of my neighbors, but I work from home. Some of the neighbors now tell delivery people to bring their packages to me if they're not at home.

[kumarvvr]

Nah. I think humans still have humanity in them and are extremely tolerant of family and friends. Society places a lot of value and gives a lot of respect to those who help others get their second chances.

[chasd00]

> Parents making children pay rent after they turn 18

i have two boys, if they're >= 18 and doing nothing but laying on the couch i don't see asking for rent being unreasonable at all! Coddling young adults as if they're still children does so harm to everyone.

[throwamon]

Whether or not you're right, you just reinforced my point of there being some (maybe semi-conscious) scorekeeping happening, and the point on there maybe being some underlying issue (psychological or even social - we know young adults living with their parents is becoming a trend and I'm sure in many cases there's much more to it than simply "being coddled as if they're still children").

[TeMPOraL]

It's not score keeping. It's recognition that we don't live in a post-scarcity society, and our needs don't satisfy themselves. Labor and money are still required to keep quality of life in a household at a stable level.

I don't think turning 18 is the common boundary line here. Entering the workforce is. If you're making money while still consuming your parents' household resources, it's only reasonable to contribute something back. FWIW, I'd hope most people who generate income while living with their parents would recognize this as obvious, and volunteer to pay rent.

[srfwx]

So more like "Family is a workplace" now that the other way around

[jstummbillig]

Care to elaborate?

[wing-_-nuts]

>Family and friends don't give performance reviews

I don't know about you, but I absolutely got 'performance reviews' every single time a report card came in. At least my manager doesn't beat me when I fail to meet expectations.

[Frost1x]

The intent is very important though. Your family beats you (hopefully, metaphorically) for poor metric performance because those are metrics of what they perceive as your future wellbeing. It's viewed as a proxy measure to your future happiness and personal success by many. They want to see success in your education so you'll be able to provide for yourself and find happiness (again, hopefully).

A business simply fires you for poor metrics with little notice because they care nothing about your past, current, or future well-being, they care about the metric itself that presumably measures how you help them.

If there was an overall well being performance review or report card, your employer wouldn't really care unless you were neigh irreplaceable. Your family on the other hand would care deeply (again, hopefully).

[ozim]

Start getting late for appointments and family gatherings. I want to see how long it will take until someone stops meeting with you or at least makes a remark.

Start promising things to friends and family, build expectations and then never deliver.

In the end you can start doing drugs and see how people react when you show up to grandma birthday stoned.

Family is also a family as long as you stick to some norms. No one loves you unconditionally. Workplace is a family but there is obviously different set of expectations and evaluation is more direct.

While family doesn't expect you to deliver value for them every day like a workplace, there is still a lot of expectations to be met.

[ganzuul]

Family is just the wrong word.

[climb_stealth]

I find it goes even further than that. Just because someone is related to you does not make them your friends or good to be around.

Having to put up with shit "because it is family" can be really unhealthy.

Statements like "workplace is a family" really give me the creeps. I have never experienced it though so not sure how I would react.

[Viliam1234]

Seems like people have different families and different workplaces, so for some of them the slogan may actually be true. Others are horrified to hear it.

[discordance]

I guess it’s nice that they are trying to care and all but I’m so sick of it at my work.

People encouraged to bring their ‘whole self’ to work has made my workplace miserable. I miss the days when work was just work, devoid of world politics, beliefs, and all the “let’s all exercise and be happy together” activities.

[chasd00]

man bring "whole self" just sounds like bring your baggage and unload it on your coworkers. what a terrible thing to encourage.

[tempodox]

Side rule: If you work in a place that has motivational posters on the walls, run like hell!