[maxov]

This is pretty unfortunate. I loved using Simple for three or so years; it was my first independent bank account. It was a great app and beautiful design with innovative banking features, like budgeting and super easy high-interest savings accounts. As soon as I heard about the shutdown I closed my accounts and moved away from Simple, and it seems like it was the right decision.

For anyone looking for an alternative, I'm using Wealthfront Cash now and I highly recommend it. They used to have super great interest rates but are now at about 0.10% APY, which is worse than others (I think you can get up to 0.50% APY right now at other places, with caveats). Although I keep minimal cash so it's not a huge difference. They do track the Fed interest rates pretty well, so I think many of the alternatives are just behind and will eventually have to lower their interest rates too. They have some nice features that Simple used to, like different categories and automatic savings/transfer to investment. The one sticking point is that they don't support cash deposits (perhaps it's possible through their partner Green Dot?), so I use a big bank checking account for that and nothing else.

[joshstrange]

I switched to One Finance since their website/app seemed clean (similar to Simple). It has tools for creating multiple "Pockets" that you can spend from. You can even setup virtual cards that spend from a specific pocket. I probably won't use any of those features since I use YNAB for managing my money now. I also use HMBradley for savings since they have 3% APY. One Finance also has a 3% "Auto Save" pocket which can do debit card round-ups and up to 10% of your direct deposit. I might use for easy access to move savings into my "Spend" pocket but you can't move money directly into that account, it has to come from direct deposit and only up to 10%. HMB let me dump my emergency fund in and start earning 3% APY which is nice.

[sathackr]

I gave One Finance a try but found their rules and inflexibility incompatible.

They don't have a 'joint account' option but claim you can share a pocket with someone else and it works the same.

Except when you have an instrument that you need to deposit/credit and it's made out to two people. They won't credit it to the 'shared' pocket because technically that pocket is owned by you, not both.

Tried to work with them for a solution but all they could offer was that I could deposit/receive it at another bank and then transfer it. When I closed the account they warned me that once closed I could never come back(they don't allow you to become a customer again in the future if you close your relationship with them). Another odd rule. And no auto transfers and no ability to deposit a paper check(at the time)

The benefit wasn't worth the hassle and I moved on.

[joshstrange]

Yeah, I can see how that would be a deal breaker. I don't need a joint account and just want a pretty website/app to hold my money so for me it fit the bill. I appreciate how the One Finance team is active on their subreddit and seem to be pretty good at communicating the roadmap with the community. But I totally get that it didn't work for you.

[anomaloustho]

Curious to hear which bank you’re using now. Especially since I haven’t found a great Simple-like bank that supports joint accounts.

[sathackr]

Wound up going to PNC.

Since they bought Simple I'm hoping the features will trickle to their customers.

What they have now is close enough for now. Similar but there are 3 "pockets" -- two checking and one savings. And they have auto transfer. (One has auto transfer now also)

Bills/utilities/relatively fixed costs come from one pocket, dining/entertainment/variable costs from the other.

Excess is moved manually every couple months to savings.

[maxov]

This may be unfounded, but I am pretty skeptical of any bank or service that offers such high APY for a savings account. The effective federal funds rate is now about 0.6%, and Wealthfront is really clear in their communications on how the interest on their cash account is directly tied to that rate. More generally, although I am not an expert, I am not sure how any bank will be able to maintain interest rates that high without somehow making money off you, or coaxing you into doing something that is actually profitable for them, when you don't see it. Especially because if they actually want to call their account a checking account, they are subject to the same legal imitations (amount in reserve, ability to make loans) as other banks.

Looking at One Finance and HMBradley, these 3% APY accounts seem to only be added to as a percentage of your direct deposit paycheck. For HMBradley, that rate only seems to kick in if you save 20% or more of your paycheck each month. I am not a financial advisor, but this seems way more than anyone should be keeping in cash. Main reason being you should only keep it for liquidity and emergencies and nothing else, because otherwise you're basically losing money to inflation.

The median American household makes $60k and has a net worth of $120k. The standard financial advice is to have an emergency fund to cover about 6 months of expenses, which we can say conservatively (adding in any other cash people keep) would be maybe $30k. To stay at that level with about 1/4 net worth in cash, you should save 25% in cash after expenses. The most common budgeting rule is 50% (needs)/30% (wants)/20 %(savings), meaning that to stay "even" you'd actually want to save at most 4% of your paycheck in cash (this way, 25% of your net worth growth will be in cash). This is not even enough for the lowest HMBradley tier of 0.50% APY.

I think all the assumptions I made are pretty conservative, namely that expenses grow linearly with income. I'm going to guess that if you're higher income (eg 2x median) your expenses will not be (they will maybe be up to 50% higher), so you should save even less to keep your emergency fund. Therefore 25% of net worth in cash seems to be a pretty good rule of thumb, if even too high for higher net worth households. You don't bump into that unless your total spending is 20% of your paycheck each month (the number of people like that must be really small). So one way or another, you're losing pretty significantly keeping that much in cash.

[joshstrange]

I’m pretty sure I agree with all your points, that’s why I don’t use HMB as anything more than a place to keep my emergency funds and get a high interest rate. I direct a small portion of my paycheck via direct deposit and that’s enough to trigger their logic to activate the saving rate (you are required to have DD). HMB is better than One’s “Auto Save” pocket because I can move in money at anytime and it qualifies for the saving rate vs One having to only come from DD (you can’t move money into that pocket).

Edit: With the way I only send a small % of my paycheck to HMB, I don’t have to care about saving X% since according to their calculations I’m always saving 100% of my “paycheck”. The rest of my paycheck goes to One Financial where I use it as-needed without worrying about disqualifying myself from a higher saving tier.

[maxov]

Gotcha. I didn't consider just putting a small amount of direct deposit into HMB, that's pretty clean! Might try it myself :) I doubt they expect most users to do something like this though, which may explain why they're able to offer a rate that high.

[joshstrange]

Absolutely. I know a number of people use this “trick” and it’s been working for me for over 6 months. I can’t remember if referral codes are allowed here but I have 2 invites which let you jump to Tier 1 (3%) right away instead of having to go up 1 tier a month (it skips waiting 3 months before you hit 3%). I used a Black Friday deal that gave the same “perk”.

Full disclosure: using my code would give me 1 “undo” or something like that. Essentially it would let me move up a tier 1 time if I were to fall for some reason. I don’t think I have any use for something like that but I always fell a little scummy offering referral codes so I didn’t want to leave it out.

If you want it, my email is in my profile.

[linsomniac]

I also switched to One Finance, just over a month ago, and so far I really like it. I also started using YNAB almost a month ago to try to help with the budgeting things I was getting from Simple but aren't really there in One.

Kind of unconvinced about YNAB, I want something that does more "autopilot with corrections", but YNAB seems to be "everything manual so you know where your money is going".

[relyks]

I switched to One Finance (after trying several other banks like Monzo, Qube Money, Douugh among others). I really like the simple interface, and it's pretty similar to Simple in terms of functioning. In some ways, it's better. There isn't the goals/expenses feature, but I'm pretty sure it's on their road map. I'm able to use the pockets feature for now. They allow scheduled transfers between pockets. I just have to calculate before what needs to be added to each pocket I made (like the percentage of my income) to correspond to goals/expenses. Scheduled transfers to pockets that act like goals receive an end date and an amount transferred each time to reach the goal. Scheduled transfers to pockets that act like expenses don't receive an end date and receive a fixed amount of my income on the days I receive a direct deposit.

Like the cash envelope method of budgeting, they also allow you to select which pocket the current transaction will come from, so you can use specific pockets for different categories e.g. a pocket for groceries/food. The system would be more useful if transactions could be categorized automatically like Simple allowed you to do with goals/expenses. However, I found Simple's categorization to not always be accurate. I ended up categorizing a lot of transactions on my own.

It's also pretty cool that each of the pockets also has separate account numbers and virtual debit numbers (if necessary). I linked each of my credit card accounts to separate pockets independently.

Btw, I withdrew all my money from my account out of anger as soon as BBVA announced the transition haha. The whole thing was very confusing to me. Simple's product is far superior to anything of BBVA's or PNC's. Both companies should have been transitioning in the opposite direction to Simple's product and system. This whole process started after BBVA announced that their US operations would be acquired by PNC. It's pretty stupid too. No one I know decided to stick with their account. They definitely lost a lot of customers.

[linsomniac]

I wasn't entirely happy with Simple; their base service was solid, but I was hoping for some level of spending analysis that I was never able to get, and their offering stayed static for a very long time.

PNC's Virtual Wallet was on my radar years ago as an alternative to Simple, but I never gave it a try. When the PNC purchase was announced, I thought for a bit about just letting it roll over and trying Virtual Wallet. But then I looked into the fees section and found their overdraft fees are both fairly high per instance, and capped fairly high per day. IIRC, you could run up $140 of fees a day. Not a huge concern of mine specifically, but I don't want to support a bank that's sucking off the overdraft fees teat.

I ended up setting up a spreadsheet of my fixed expenses per paycheck, and then just set up One scheduled transfers of the amount that spreadsheet tells me to. That works at least as well for me as the Simple Expenses (which had a lot of annoying warts).

[replwoacause]

I used YNAB for years but their rigid budgeting philosophy of “giving every dollar a job” never clicked for me. I just switched over to Lunchmoney and appreciate the flexibility it offers.

[zo1]

I used to use YNAB before it was a "web app", and it was pretty auto-pilot after setting up the imports/rules. It classified 98%+ of all my expenses and inter-account transfers without any issue. Every once in a while you had to classify a new transaction but that was rare after a while. Anyways, the ones that are rare like that are usually once-offs and you're already making notes next to them so you know what it was for.

[linsomniac]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but I've watched several tutorials... The workflow seems to be: Every time you get paid, you go in and assign your money to your budget. This is the "make every dollar work for you" part. But that involves going to each non-green line item and adding some amount of your remaining money to that item.

It doesn't really have an idea of when expenses are due (though you can set up dates on goals, but multiple tutorials I watched recommended putting the due date in the name, so you can manually sort the items. It also doesn't have an idea of when you get paid. So it can't do things like: "You're going to need to pay your mortgage of $X in 2 pay periods, so let's allocate $X/2 of this paycheck to the mortgage expense.

In fact, it doesn't support even "add the remaining amount for this expense", so you're going around typing the dollar values of different expenses.

I understand that this is part of their design to get people more familiar with their money and where it's going. Maybe if I was waaaay off track, and really pressed for money, that would be valuable. But I'm 90% on track, my worries are kind of higher level.

Again, maybe I'm misunderstanding something. But I've watched hours worth of tutorials, by YNAB and others, so I've at least done some level of research. :-)

[zo1]

I think they went a little too-heavy into the "manual" part of YNAB at some point. Internally and from the UI (YNAB 4) it has everything to do the stuff automatically and that's what I do.

E.g. When I get paid, that gets loaded into YNAB using a bank-import. So even if the rules don't run, I just have to go through all my "transactions" that got loaded from the bank import and just assign to pre-defined "payees". Further, each payee has a linked category so I don't have to categorize what expense that transaction was for, because it's implied by who the payee is. E.g. A butchery store payee means the category is e.g. "Groceries - Food - Meat" or just "Monthly Groceries". YNAB also has a filter where it highlights all transactions that haven't been assigned.

With the above stuff, there is no need to do any manual or scheduled expenses. The only time that doesn't apply is when you withdraw cash and spend it that way. If you do a lot of cash transactions, you'd have to do that manually unfortunately. But for myself, what little I spend using cash I just zero-out my "cash" account every once in a while with a manual transaction that is an "unknown expenses" budget category.

Some of the stuff above is specific to the YNAB 4 desktop software - before they converted to a subscription web-based tool.

[joshstrange]

Goals are going to be your friend here. I have goals on all but 1-2 categories (categories that I rarely contribute to or are just holding the money, like my taxes for freelance work) and I can select all my categories and auto-fund them all in like 3 clicks. That's pretty much all I do on pay day, go out to the furthest month I want to budget in advance, select all category groups (or most if I don't have enough money for all) and click "Underfunded" which will put the right amount to cover my goal for the month. If you set up recurring transactions the "Underfunded" button will fund it exactly what it needs. I almost never enter numbers manually. It took me 2-3 months to get my goals dialed in because I started with guesses and went from there and sometimes I still find myself saying "Ok, I'm always pressed on this category and it's more important to me than X so I'll start funding it more going forward".

You are correct that it doesn't have a concept of when you get paid or when your expenses are due, though I set up recurring transactions for everything, even things like utilities that fluctuate. I just go in on the first of the month and adjust the pending transaction to be the correct amount for my electric/water/sewage and save it. The whole idea of not telling YNAB how much I make a month was very confusing to me at the start coming from tools like Mint but there is a method to the "madness". For YNAB you never count on future earnings, all you can spend is what you have at this point in time. For the first month or two you might not finish funding the current month until part way through it but the goal is to get 1+ months ahead on all your spending so that you are always spending last month's money instead of living paycheck to paycheck.

Here is the video that helped me the most when I first got started, maybe it will help you as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPVEB759gkU

I tried YNAB4 (app-based) and nYNAB (web-based) both once before the most recent time I tried YNAB (starting May 2020) and this last time was the only time it "clicked" for me (and the first time I really got serious about my finances). YNAB has been literally life changing for me. I went from living with a very small buffer (despite my well-paying job) to having 3 months in the future fully funded. The peace I mind I get from knowing I could lose my job tomorrow and be fine for 3 months minimum (I'd probably cut some categories and/or plunder some savings-based categories to stretch it longer) is amazing. My bank account has never had this much money in it in my life and despite having to take a 20% pay cut for about 6 months, due to the pandemic, I stayed on track for everything and continued to grow my net worth.

I know I probably sound a bit like a fanatic or a "true believer" but YNAB (once it clicked for me) changed how I interact with money and my finances as a whole. I really hope it works for you or you find a tool that clicks for you if it's not YNAB!

I'm happy to answer any other questions you might have on it. I'm forever grateful to the friend who nudged me to try YNAB again and I feel obligated to "pay it forward" whenever I can to help other people get started on it.

[webinvest]

I found that with One finance, you couldn’t pull money from any accounts linked with just a routing number and an account number. That was a dealbreaker because I don’t type banking usernames and passwords into other websites for security reasons.

[joshstrange]

You can always fall back to linking via Routing/Account number I'm pretty sure. Just enter "fake" in the Plaid search box for banks (or any string that don't match a real bank) and they will give you an option to link via Routing/Account number.

Here is a short video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtps42rl2jmm7lw/Screen%20Recording...

[webinvest]

Okay, you are correct.

[toast0]

> As soon as I heard about the shutdown I closed my accounts and moved away from Simple, and it seems like it was the right decision.

Indeed, getting out before things fully wind down is going to go smoother for so many things; a good habit to get into.

> I think you can get up to 0.50% APY right now at other places, with caveats.

My primary credit union, Star One, has 0.5% on savings for the past year? or so, field of membership includes Santa Clara County, Alameda County, Merced County, Monterey County, San Benito County, San Joaquin County, San Mateo County, Santa Cruz County, and Stanislaus County; ask around for a referral code because there's a decent referral bonus; if you jump through hoops, you can get 0.5% on checking too. Penfed has 0.45% and no geo restrictions if you join a club (but I haven't done it). Capital One has 0.4%, but is Capital One. If you're getting 0.1% you're doing it wrong.

[dlgeek]

Ally's also at 0.50%

[astura]

T-Mobile MONEY (a division of Customers Bank) has 1% APY, no limits, no strings attached.

You can also get 4% APY on the first $3,000 if you have a TMobile account and wanna jump through some hoops.

[toast0]

This looks quite interesting, thanks. I had heard of the 4% on $3,000, but not the 1% no limits (although one should certainly consider the FDIC limits). No joint accounts is a bit of a headache, but twice the interest might be worth it.

[kqr2]

Just curious what is wrong with Capital One?

[brewdad]

Capital One screwed me over when I had a credit card with them about 25 years ago. It was less than $100 but I never forgot. The day they announced they were buying ING is the day I moved my money elsewhere.

I'm sure they've lost far more by losing my business than the money they squeezed out of me years ago.

[toast0]

They feel skeezy, from years of marketing and targeting of their credit cards. I liked the ING Direct branding before CapOne bought them. No specific issues or experience though.

[jurassic]

I got screwed by Capital One when they refused to wire my funds to a different institution when I needed them to for a big stock option exercise. The rep on the phone told me their policy was to only do wire transfers for home closings. They wouldn't budge, which seemed shocking and completely unacceptable to me, so I initiated closing of the account that same day.

[MrMan]

JPMorganChase has a great app, and its a great bank

[klassicd]

Have you heard or tried DEFI yet? Ethereum has grown so much the past two years, along with competitors like Terra, Fantom, Polygon, etc... You can easily earn 10-30% on stablecoins using dApps like curve.fi, yearn.fi, bancor.finance, aave.com, etc... It's a revolution of the financial industry and a new global decentralized settlement layer. Stop letting TradFi banks rip you off, experiment with DEFI and you will never want to hold money in a legacy bank again. It's grown from 0-85B in just 2 years.

[maxov]

Yeah, I have heard of it, and thanks for mentioning it to those who may not have. Like others have said, these have very few of the same guarantees people might be looking for in institutional accounts, especially that it's not FDIC insured or other legal obligations. They are also subject to risks like bugs in smart contracts or even larger ones like in the settlement/blockchain layer. And how disputes may be settled in these systems legally has not been tested and is still under question. They are also not a good fit for standard checking account features that e.g. Wealthfront Cash has. Sadly, the amount of users actually using cryptocurrency for real-world transactions is still really small. [1]

I think all this stuff around yield farming, liquidity pooling, etc. is super cool, but I think the standard advice applies: "don't put in more than you are willing to lose". Given all the unknown factors and risks I would not use it for my emergency fund or savings, and right now I would think about it more like a rather risky, potentially high-return investment. Even if these products are marketed as "protected accounts", they all say that loss of principal is possible.

[1]: See https://medium.com/swlh/how-many-people-actually-use-bitcoin.... The 2018 Chainalysis report estimated 13.5 million Bitcoin users with 2.3 million using it to make regular payments. Who knows how many of these payments correspond to "real-world" goods and services, but I'd guess it's not much. Compare this to Paypal with 300 million active users.

[gruez]

A FDIC insured savings account has a vastly different risk profile than difi tokens. Not to mention, the interest is paid in tokens, so if it goes south so do your returns.

[rsync]

It’s so weird to consider that “The Big Short” was actually a prequel.

[Red_Leaves_Flyy]

Are any of those FDIC insured? Many people are reticent to put money in the hands of people that are not accountable to or insured by the full faith and power of the U.S. government.