[irl_]

This is a common theme.

Your employer writes your contract of employment and has fancy lawyers to make sure everything works in favour of the employer. You likely did not have input into the contract at all, and also likely did not have fancy lawyers to help you understand the terms of the contract. Your employer has made up the rules of the game and you do not understand them.

I predict you're going to lose.

[woofie11]

I've had a lawyer review my employment contract before. I've had it modified.

It's totally worth it if you're getting paid a good SWE or higher salary. You can run the numbers on odds of litigation and on expected costs/benefits.

Once you do it once or twice, you start being able to understand the legal code a little bit better.

And yes, it is a code. Employment contracts are overly broad, and then limited by statutory law. At one point, I had an OC tell me I was reading something wrong. I make it a policy never to take advice from an OC, so I called up my employment lawyer.

For once, OC was right.

That almost never happens.

The layman's read made the contract totally untenable, but what it meant was perfectly reasonable. This was years ago, but I think it was some overly-broad we-own-your-life clause (non-compete or out-of-work-time or similar, probably). Statutory law made such clauses of limited power in my state, and it didn't block what I wanted to do.

[xtracto]

The last company i worked for wanted to charge employees for laptops in case of accidental damage or loss (appart from a clause charging for negligent damage or loss).

I decided not to sign unless they removed the accidental part. In the end they removed it.

People dont realise but they have more power than they think. Specially in smaller companies.

Companies wait until the end of the interview to reveal all those nasty bits. But at that exact time, it's when they know they need you and they wa y you. Ask for your a copy of your contract before you decide. And feel free to comment on it. It is the only moment when you as an individual have the upper hand.

[grep_name]

> Ask for your a copy of your contract before you decide

Hmmm, usually when I change jobs it goes like this: apply for job -> receive offer letter -> make decision -> sign offer letter -> give notice -> wait out last two weeks -> sign a bunch more stuff on the first day of the job or during the last two weeks, usually including what I think of as the contract. I could be wrong, I'm trying to be more conscious of these things.

It seems like in this scenario, you might get hit with this info after you've turned in your notice with your current job. Did they really let you see everything you needed to sign before you turned in your notice? Is that a normal request?

[woofie11]

I always ask to review the paperwork before I make a decision.

It's never been a problem.

Now, I don't job hop a lot, so that's not a large sample size, but at least the companies I worked for all let me review paperwork before deciding. Not all let me change it, but many did. It's not strictly a function of company size either.

And if they don't let you review it, that's a sign too. If someone is using information asymmetry against you, it's a bad sign. Likewise, if you're getting an offer, and you know you have 100,000 stock options, but no idea the size of the pool, it's probably not a place you want to work.

First job out of college, you'll probably get fleeced, and that's probably okay -- you're mostly building your resume and learning -- but most of the time, you should hold your employers to reasonable expectations.

I should also mention -- you learn a lot talking to lawyers. Part of the upside is reviewing your new contract, and part, it's an educational expense. The more you learn on your own going in before talking, the less you'll spend, and the more you'll get out.