[biren34]

Okay, this brings up a really pivotal point that took me way too long to learn:

ALL advice MUST be tailored to the individual.

This entire discussion is moot for some fraction of the population whether due to internal traits or external circumstances.

So, if you are living option #4, good luck to you. If someone is not living option #4, there are likely internal drives they need to learn to control/manage, and just pointing out that other people are able to live option #4 isn't useful to them.

[q3k]

I think your original post irks me in the context of raising children: by only presenting them options #1-#3, you effectively blind them from seeing option #4 as a possibility.

Eg., you have the potential of raising overly competitive children that will absolutely lose it when they realize there's no obvious ranking after they step out of the traditional path of school -> university -> corporate career.

[biren34]

How I wish I could link to another comment.

Here's my answer to that, with some of it repeated from a comment posted to another comment above:

I 100% believe in "success" and the will to power--and I want my kids to succeed, full stop. I make no excuses. It's part of my value system, and I don't hide from it. I'm a second generation immigrant, and on my visits back to India, I've seen what real poverty looks like.

I don't mean any offense in this, but here it is as plainly as I can say: The idea that "success" isn't crucially important in life is just wrong. I see it as coming from a softness that I associate with participation trophies and the general wimpification of America.

I very much ascribe to G. Michael Hopf's philosophy of “Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

The ability to succeed is essential. It's the ability set a goal and accomplish it. That ability is totally separate from the nature of the goal. That goal can be making a billion dollars or it can be building a neighborhood community group.

Given the above, I DON'T deem to know the right path for my children. They are their own people with their own passions, skills, and motivations. They're still young, but I hope that, if one day, one of them wants to drop out of college and pursue acting full time, I'll be supportive.

My goal is to give them the skills and emotional strength to go out there and be the best version of themselves, and in my opinion, knowing how to succeed--and how to see other are farther along than you and still keep going--it crucial.

At the same time, there's a reason I couched this conversation in terms of what I'd tell my kids. I'm not claiming any universal truth. This is me, my values, my biases. I think I'm right, but I'm just another schmoe doing the best I can. And fortunately, it's my right to screw up my kids in my own way :)

[anarticle]

Sorry for coming back to this, I'm sure I will regret it.

We are touching on some of the same ideas, which I think is great.

Part of the "wimpification of America" is in the same vein: "This does not make me successful, so I will not do it, someone else will handle it."

Part of creating strong people is creating robust people. The trouble is when success is the only goal, you will get it at any cost including your ethical framework. (Rereading this: when I say robust, I mean versatile.)

Not caring about it is realizing that there are others who might sacrifice/min max in ways that are detrimental to their well being and that perhaps that is bad for you as an individual. The side effects of overpressure to perform are just as bad, you can see this in the indecision of people who don't make ANY decision because they are afraid to take responsibility for things. This is usually because anything that is not 110% is unacceptable, therefore, do not do anything you cannot 110%.

You can see this in newly formed adults who have never been told no absolutely losing it at their corporate job when things do not go their way. I have managed these people, and let me just say, wow.

You keep doubling down on how "success is crucially important" but, are maybe not seeing how this conflicts with strong people.

In either case, I hope your kids do well. You have a strong belief system which hopefully results in strong people.