[nick-dap]

I'm in the same boat. It's been difficult. I cannot express how grateful I am to Jose Vargas for writing this story.

I was brought here as a kid 13 years ago. I'm 24 now. I also graduated from a "top" university -- like that matters. I guess my parents weren't smart enough to get a fake social security card for me back then, I wish they were. I've also been fighting for the Dream Act for what feels like an eternity. I made a site and still maintain it, have met with Senators, protested in front of the White House, several times, other things. I'm loosing hope. I lost hope in Congress long ago. I lost hope in this President in December, when he failed to stand by us and the vote. I don't have anything left to wait for.

I'm still "hiding," most of my friends have no idea, but I see less and less reason to do so every day. I just can't take it anymore. I'm worth _something_. I'm competent coder, and fuck it all, at least I got that, my mind, and my family.

Anybody who wants to debate the pros and cons of immigration reform can go to hell. I'm done reading the hate mail. I'm done debating. I am done listening to those masked bigots. I know what it is like to live like this having done nothing wrong. I know that I don't deserve the punishment. If we can't agree on the fact that I am American and should have basic rights, then we have nothing to talk about. I'm not asking for anything except recognition.

Btw, people who were brought here on fake documents, as me and Jose, can't get married for papers. So even if Jose wasn't gay, he wouldn't be able to adjust based on marriage. It's unfortunate that people who come here on student visas get married -- assuming they have enough money -- and have a green card in six months. People like me and Jose, homebred Americans if ya will, are forever tarnished with this inherited title. Hello, my name is "illegal immigrant." That's what I feel like every single day. Every morning in the shower, I utter the words "I am so fucking tired." And I am.

[ebiester]

Trust me, there's nobody on this board that is more sympathetic than I am. I am 110% behind you with the DREAM act, and my money has gone to Immigration Equality which has lobbied for this issue. (For different reasons, but suffice to say I'm an ally.)

There's one simple problem with changing immigration, and that's the system is working as intended. Farm workers can't unionize nearly as easily if they are undocumented, and undocumented workers don't have to be paid standard wages. In fact, they can explicitly be paid substandard wages and there is no way to complain. Your parents, most likely.

Undocumented workers lower unskilled work wages and working conditions far past what a documented system would. Further, as workers age out of the ability to do backbreaking farm work, they have no legal protections on which to rely, and can be thrown back out more easily. The DREAM act, however, brings people into the system with legal protections, people who can't easily be exploited in the same way their parents are. Your parents, that is.

And that's why we face an uphill battle with the DREAM act. It sounds conspiratorial, and nobody would explicitly admit this; sometimes, we get to status quo through unintended consequences, but people build their businesses on unintended consequences, and change isn't something they take easily, especially when it impacts their bottom line.

[Maxious]

Georgia's tough anti-illegal-immigrant law drove a sizable fraction of the migrant labor pool out of the state, and as a result, "millions of dollars' worth of blueberries, onions, melons and other crops [are] unharvested and rotting in the fields." http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/06/georgias...

Surely there would be some way to legalize low cost unskilled workers at the expense of giving them some basic rights.

[ebiester]

Bus them in from Atlanta and pay them legal wages and working conditions. Amazingly though, the price of food will go up.

It's a labor supply shock, not a shortage however. The people who would be hired would be inexperienced and more expensive.

[onlineph]

For me, those documents are but papers that marks the existence of a certain person in the political angle. It seems like papers are more valuable than life. Jose and you deserved recognition by papers. Hopefully, many people like you would support the Dream Act.

Anyways, it's the states policy.

[mahyarm]

Go apply with canada, you have a clean slate there and you can get a green card on arrival with all of your qualifications:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2686136

After 4 years (3 years + 1 year of waiting for the citizenship test, passport generation, etc) you can come back and work in the US under TN at the border. You can also travel to the USA by applying for a 5-10 year B visa and visit as you wish once you've had your your permanent residence card for a while. This all contingent if you haven't had any issues with us immigration. Singapore is also an option.

[nkassis]

Or just stay in Canada. It's a nice place to live. It's very similar to living in the US. As a programmer you could easily find a job.

[HowardRoark]

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/tool/tool_06....

Can programmers even apply under the skilled category anymore? I thought Canada only wanted computer managers since 2009(?).

[mahyarm]

I don't know, there might be a way to do it still for Canada. For example cooks and chefs can get a PR card o_o, it would be good for your health to take up a 1 year cooking sabbatical or something (geek out about diet and such). Australia accepts computer professionals on arrival also under the software engineer category (60 points, pretty good!) with a skills test. Australians also have a TN like arrangement with the us, but it's a dual intent visa (E-3) so it's even easier to get the green card. The waiting period although is 6 years (5 years + 1 year citizenship test & passport generation). Singapore is also extremely quick if he has the gumption to start a consulting business there, or get employment, it's possible to get PR in 6 months and singapore also has a special TN type H1B. Singapore although is a 1 passport citizenship, it's major downfall. Mexico also has the TN arrangement along with Canada as a part of NAFTA and Chile also has a TN like arrangement also. The somewhat open secret with these TN visas is that even if they are not dual intent, if your willing to stay in the country until green card and renew inside until you have it you can still successfully for permanent residence. You can also apply directly outside of the USA for permanent residence under the EB-* visas. You'll be waiting years and have to have a really really nice employer/friends who's willing to wait that long. There are also the dual intent L-1A, L-1B visas. There are options for immigrating to the USA, even if it might take 20 years in the end...

http://canberra.usembassy.gov/e3visa/qualifying.html http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/175... http://www.guidemesingapore.com/relocation/pr/singapore-perm...

[freshfunk]

The story was a moving one and I hope Vargas gets to stay.

With that said, I think illegal immigration creates all kinds of societal problems and is unfair to legal immigrants.

The problem it creates is that there's enormous stress on those that are illegal. They live in the shadows and can be taken advantage of. My own personal experience was driving in LA and being rear-ended by someone who then fled the scene (most likely illegal). They work for less than minimum wage and don't cooperate with law enforcement for fear of deportation.

I'm a child of legal immigrants so I'm naturally biased. There is a legal system and many people every year try to go through that system like my parents did. I see illegal immigrants as "cutting in line" and I see nothing fair about it.

But I'm also human. People like Vargas had no choice (sent here as a kid) and has made a life here. I also sympathize those that flee poverty, crime and even wanting a brighter future. I also grew up in LA and know that many illegal immigrants live decent lives.. heck some of my friends are probably undocumented.

But completely opening the borders is not feasible. Creating systems that encourage illegal immigration only make the problem worse (and exacerbate the problems mentioned above).

[jacobolus]

The problem with your “cutting in line is bad” line is that people’s choice to immigrate without papers has almost nothing to do with “lines” or policies or lawbreaking, and everything to do with the much more powerfully compelling economic organization of the world (and particularly North America).

1) United States agriculture absolutely depends on a certain amount of unskilled labor to function, for which the United States has been importing Mexican laborers in large numbers for at least 80 years. Ending this importation of labor would literally cause the agriculture system in this country to break down.

2) Many parts of Mexico have been economically depressed with high underemployment/unemployment for decades. There are physically too many people for the quantity of available jobs.

The undocumented immigrants I know (including my parents’ godson who is a migrant agricultural laborer, including several guys who stayed in my family’s house for a few months in the early 1990s, including 30-50% of young men from many indigenous communities in southern Mexico, etc.) DO NOT want to leave their parents, their wives, their children, their communities to go to a strange place where they do not speak the language to do hard labor, missing their children’s early years, DO NOT want to take on tremendous personal financial risk in the form of huge loans from loan sharks who will happily repossess their family’s home or start sending goons to beat people up if the money isn’t repaid.

Unfortunately, the choice is often hover-your-whole-life-just-above-or-below-subsistence-level (i.e. take on personally degrading and dangerous jobs to feed your family, risk starvation, etc.), or clear out and go somewhere else. If the outlet of leaving to the United States were unavailable as an escape valve, I’m quite convinced many would end up either starving or turning to other kinds of desperate action.

In other words, not really a choice at all.

You’re damn right that a system that has people staying in this country without papers isn’t fair and allows those people to be taken advantage of. You know what else isn’t fair and allows people to be taken advantage of? The whole global economic order.

[Note: this is not intended as a call to any particular action; just trying to state facts.]

[freshfunk]

I sympathize but, ultimately, do not find your argument compelling.

Mexico isn't the only poor country in the world. They just happen to be the one that's closest to the US. When my parents legally immigrated here, South Korea was a poor nation. Look at the history of US immigration and you'll see that this is a pattern (eg. Irish and Italians in the 1900s to modern day immigrants from Africa and Asia).

I'm from LA so I'm well aware of the economic contributions of the Mexican illegal immigrants.

With that said, I don't necessarily agree with your positions. Due to the massive rate of illegal immigration, agriculture has been able to thrive on low cost economics. If they didn't have that labor, it doesn't mean the US would shut down. What it would mean is that the US would have to adjust the economics in order to make it viable. This could result in the following:

a) A much larger legal guest worker program. b) Importing more agriculture from countries like Mexico. c) Higher wages for legal farm workers (including legal residents of Mexican origin).

In all 3 of these cases, it would lead to be a better situation for Mexican-Americans or Mexico. In the case of b), it would help the economics of Mexico.

I sympathize that Mexico is a poor country. Like I said before, there are many poor countries in this world. I don't want to sound callous but I don't understand how this is specifically the responsibility of the US. We don't even have a nationalized health system.

Also, allowing illegal immigration does not help Mexico in the long term. It won't fix their lack of economy and unemployment problems. Saying there are "physically too many people" is an excuse IMO. Every country battles the problem of unemployment.

[gcb]

I don't think that anyone not from l.a. understand the illegal immigration thing going on here. it's difficult to give the full image.

I'm living here for more than a year and am still shocked that there are neighborhoods that only speak their native language and are virtually paperless... even though some of them goes to tijuana every other weekend. I'm here legally and still avoid going to mexico to avoid the hassle.

[freshfunk]

I didn't meant to imply that. I just meant what I said which was that I'm well-aware of the illegal immigrant situation since I've lived in the middle of it.

[akat]

Anyone can do (almost) anything illegal and blame it on "Global economic order". Does it really justify the illegal actions?

[ido]

    There is a legal system and many people every year try 
    to go through that system like my parents did. I see
    illegal immigrants as "cutting in line" and I see 
    nothing fair about it.

The problem is that if you are not a student there is basically no way to legally immigrate except:

1. Marrying an american

2. Indentured servitude via H1-B (hard to get, and if you leave your job/get fired you have to find a new job in two weeks or leave)

It used to be a lot easier in the past.

[freshfunk]

If you think the privilege of an H1B is "indentured servitude", it seems that immigration is not for you. I don't expect to enter a foreign country and immediately have all the same worker rights as a citizen of that country.

[ido]

    If you think the privilege of an H1B is 
    "indentured servitude", it seems that 
    immigration is not for you.

Funny that you say that, I have been an immigrant for almost 7 years now in the European Union (where it's significantly easier than in the US).

I am educated, healthy, young, have no criminal record and as a programmer I earn a significantly higher than average salary (and therefor pay significantly higher than average taxes).

I can say with a straight face that probably any country I choose to live in will benefit from me being there, so why would you want to keep skilled people like me out?

[freshfunk]

Do they? Just the other day I met an entrepreneur who was not American (either Canadian or European) who's able to work here on a "extraordinary ability" visa. He wasn't under an H1B and he's starting his own company.

My original point is that H1B is not a right, it's a privilege. Even though you're awesome (by your own account), I fail to see why you're owed anything.

[ido]

I'm not owed anything, I'm arguing that it's in the country's interest to attract skilled labor (which many other western countries like Australia, Canada & New Zealand do with their vastly easier immigration policies).

[dennisgorelik]

Could you explain why immigrants should not have equal rights with born in the US citizens?

[freshfunk]

Well 1) that is the rule of law. It's not just the case for the US but many other modern nations in this world.

2) Being a citizen doesn't just have benefits but also responsibilities. This is why we pledge allegiance.

At age 21 I had to register for the civil service. That means that if my country goes to war and I'm drafted then I must fight and possibly die for my country.

An illegal immigrant will not be drafted.

It also means other things I'm bound under federal law like paying taxes. There are also other civil duties like being on a jury to judge my fellow citizens. As a citizen, I'm bound by the laws on our constitution and those created by our legislature.

3) The privileges of a citizen allow them to contribute to the way our democracy functions including the right to vote.

An illegal immigrant cannot vote.

The rest of my argument was already stated above to you. If we completely open the borders to everyone, then our government wouldn't even be able to serve the current legal citizens.

You may dislike the system but in other countries such as Japan and Germany it is even more difficult and exclusionary. They are based on parentage and while that make more sense to you, it actually ends up leaving large classes of immigrants unnaturalized.

[dennisgorelik]

1) So basically your explanation goes like that: "Discrimination against immigrants is justified, because it's a law and other countries discriminate even worse than the US".

I hoped for somewhat better reasoning than that. If you take "it's a law and it must stay unchanged" principle to the heart, then you would be dead by now killed as invader by one of American-Indian tribes.

2) "Opening borders to everyone" has very little to do with "Stopping discrimination against immigrants".

[wnight]

> That means that if my country goes to war and I'm drafted then I must fight and possibly die for my country.

Societies that raise slave armies aren't free.

Or, did I miss where you'd be able to abstain if, for instance, you knew the whole thing was a farce?

> Being a citizen doesn't just have benefits but also responsibilities.

And consequences. If you're a US taxpayer (one of about 200M) you've recently paid for the killing of about 1/100th of someone, likely a non-combatant.

Not to count (of course) those your country's policies have merely displaced, such as many of the poor in Mexico, victims of "Free Trade" and the like.

Darned illegals.

> If we completely open the borders to everyone, then our government wouldn't even be able to serve the current legal citizens.

Cite needed.

The USA can manufacture and deliver a bomb for every man, woman, and child in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc, and you don't think it could provide basic food and medical instead?

[l0c0b0x]

You forgot sponsoring/petitioning a relative AND the visa lottery (a relative of mine was lucky enough to receive one of these, was able to bring his whole family here, eventually). It has taken us 20 years to bring about 35-40 relatives from South America (more are waiting--in line)... it takes time, money and a LOT of patience. Also helps if you don't get into problems with the law.

[onlineph]

If the US would dump Jose Vargas, I assure you, his home country would gladly accept him and big opportunity awaits him here.

For sure the big papers and TV network here in the Philippines would race to get Jose to join them.

JV, it's time to face another world. We got your back!

[chaostheory]

I was in the same boat too. Reading this article brought back a lot of painful memories. Like the author, I only found out years after I assimilated. For a while, I couldn't even look at the flag or say the pledge without feeling depressed.

Thankfully one of my divorced parents married a citizen close to when I started high school. Eventually I was eligible to apply for citizenship sometime late in college.

I still remember the citizenship 'test' I had to take. It consisted of telling the tester: the colors of flag, reading a sentence that said George Washington was the 1st US president, and telling her who the current president was. Ironically I had passed an AP US history course sometime ago with flying colors.

[lelele]

Why do you want to stay in a country which does not want you? Send them all to hell, and take your knowledge and abilities where they are appreciated.

USA are not the World. I've heard Canada is very open to knowledge workers from outside. Learn about other countries.

Good luck.

[anigbrowl]

I'm not in the same boat, but I'm in the next one over - I too am an undocumented alien. You are not alone.

[blrs]

I think Milton Friedman nailed it when he said that the biggest obstacle to a freer immigration policy is the welfare state.

"[Throughout the history of the U.S.] you had a flood of immigrants, millions of them, coming to this country. What brought them here? It was the hope for a better life for them and their children. And, in the main, they succeeded. It is hard to find any century in history, in which so large a number of people experienced so great an improvement in the conditions of their life, in the opportunities open to them, as in the period of the 19th and early 20th century.

You will find hardly a soul who will say that it was a bad thing. Almost everybody will say it was a good thing. ‘But what about today? Do you think we should have free immigration?’ ‘Oh, no,’ they’ll say, ‘We couldn’t possibly have free immigration today. Why, that would flood us with immigrants from India, and God knows where. We’d be driven down to a bare subsistence level.’

What’s the difference? How can people be so inconsistent? Why is it that free immigration was a good thing before 1914 and free immigration is a bad thing today? Well, there is a sense in which that answer is right. There’s a sense in which free immigration, in the same sense as we had it before 1914 is not possible today. Why not?

Because it is one thing to have free immigration to jobs. It is another thing to have free immigration to welfare. And you cannot have both. If you have a welfare state, if you have a state in which every resident is promised a certain minimal level of income, or a minimum level of subsistence, regardless of whether he or she works or not, produces it or not. Then it really is an impossible thing.

If you have free immigration, in the way we had it before 1914, everybody benefited. The people who were here benefited. The people who came benefited. Because nobody would come unless he, or his family, thought he would do better here than he would elsewhere. And, the new immigrants provided additional resources, provided additional possibilities for the people already here. So everybody can mutually benefit.

But on the other hand, if you come under circumstances where each person is entitled to a pro-rata share of the pot, to take an extreme example, or even to a low level of the pie, than the effect of that situation is that free immigration, would mean a reduction of everybody to the same, uniform level. Of course, I’m exaggerating, it wouldn’t go quite that far, but it would go in that direction. And it is that perception, that leads people to adopt what at first seems like inconsistent values."

You can read the rest at: http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2008/02/what-milton-friedma...

[knowtheory]

And yet Canada's population growth is almost entirely due to immigration (population growth by birthrate in Canada is flat or ever so slightly negative).

Edit: actually the natural growth rate is every so slightly positive. Read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_of_Canada_by_year#Co...

[neilk]

Immigration to Canada in the 21st century is not the situation you had in the USA pre-1914. At Ellis Island, as long it was deemed that you weren't insane, diseased, or a criminal, and could support yourself, you could get US citizenship in an afternoon.

Although Canada has the most liberal immigration policy of all industrialized countries today, it will still take an applicant years to become a Canadian.

[knowtheory]

Hey Neil,

I do not disagree on any of those counts, the fact still remains that impediments to immigration are not caused (either solely or entirely) by welfare states. And more to the point, they can have considerably more liberal policies than less progressive states.

So when i hear people attack socialized systems, especially in oblique manners such as this (rather than highlighting specific policies that need to change), my bullshit radar goes off.

[baltcode]

Thank you! Isn't the whole idea of fairness that people should be able to work to support themselves. Isn't that a basic human right? So to all the people clamoring for amnesty for Vargas but think Indian and Chinese workers don't deserve jobs, please think about the logical inconsistencies. The free market has benefited a lot of people. Its about time it also benefited the underclass of workers, who are not part of exclusive unions, whether they be SEIU, or protectionist parties in different nations.

[qusiba]

Why not try to immigrate to Canada?

[shasta]

What country did you immigrate here from?

[maxwin]

Like his facebook page. Show some support.

http://www.facebook.com/JoseAJournalist?sk=wall

[lupatus]

Or suggest that he should return to the Philippines?

[wnight]

If it has to balance out we could send you...

[lupatus]

You are a criminal and not a "homebred American". You should stop punishing yourself and return to your home country. It sounds like you have the skills to be very successful there.

[pyre]

So is 'American' culture or tribe affiliation? If he/she grew up in America then deporting him/her is like sending them to a foreign country for all intents and purposes. What if he/she doesn't even know her/his native language? It's not such a black and white issue, as much as you might want it to be.

[akat]

at least, get in the line.

[reddweb]

Its simple. Do you implement the LAW ? or let law hijacked by emotions/plight? The legal aliens are idiots?. There are literally billions of people living below poverty line, who will sacrifice everything just to come to America - legally!!! Hardships, emotions and empathy has no place when you take into account 300 million citizens who are legally bound to support the system (tax, servcies, public shcools, hopsitals etc)

The real gem of this story is that the Secret Service and Whitehouse staff/security couldn't catch the fake social security card/number, that Vargas submitted.

LoL! If those institutions cant catch, then who can? Anybody can come here illegally and live/work enjoy. The fear (no reason for it) they have is similar to fear we have of accident - it rarely happens but needs vigilance/careful.

[geezer]

If law is unjust, you change the law. It has happened in American plenty of times. Hell, America was founded in part because an unjust law was imposed on us.

[reddweb]

unjust to whom? lets open borders ?

vargas, when he was smuggled into this country, was not "special case" at that time. This is a typical, hallmark fraud case. The coyote, fake passport, fake student visa, fake greencard the list goes on.

you want the Law to be just in above case? i am just saying there needs to be punishment and accountability.

Believe me, the US immigration law is lot better, just and clever than most other countries. There are lot of legal aliens that comply with it, and grateful for the opportunity.

[kelnos]

But in this case, punish whom? Vargas? He was 12 when all this happened, had no say in the matter, and didn't really know what was going on until he turned 16. What should he have done then? Turned himself in as an illegal immigrant?

[reddweb]

That argument can be taken advantage of in lot of situations. I empatize with vargas but unfortunately, as the lawyer said, he needs to get back in line - legally.

He committed 70% of the fraud after turning 16. He is not kid anymore, and be responsible for his situation/actions.

What about legal alien kids who come (sent by parents) here legally for undergrad studies...pay upto 100K in tuition fees, and be sent back if can't get job visa or other legal immigration problems? Wouldn't you argue, this kid knows nothing , he was shown the american dream, he deserves greencard/citizenship?

Lot of other scenarios can be argued.

There is law for a reason, and 300 millions American citizens and legal aliens abide by it. Do you want make all of them feel idiots?

[kelnos]

What about legal alien kids who come (sent by parents) here legally for undergrad studies...pay upto 100K in tuition fees, and be sent back if can't get job visa or other legal immigration problems? Wouldn't you argue, this kid knows nothing , he was shown the american dream, he deserves greencard/citizenship?

This is just further evidence that the system is terribly broken. And, of course, in this case the kid getting sent home still has the illegal immigration option. He/she's no worse off than someone like Vargas, though residing illegally is probably more difficult when you're already on file with the gov't.

There is law for a reason

So you say. Clearly it's not working out very well, or situations like this (and many others) wouldn't pop up so often, and immigration reform wouldn't be a hot-button issue of national importance.

... and 300 millions American citizens and legal aliens abide by it. Do you want make all of them feel idiots?

They can feel however they want to feel; I don't particularly care. They do have one huge benefit over Vargas' situation: they don't live in fear every day that someone will find out about them and they'll get sent back to their birth country.

[CWuestefeld]

There is law for a reason, and 300 millions American citizens and legal aliens abide by it. Do you want make all of them feel idiots?

Obviously you've never dealt with immigration. My wife was a Chinese citizen here on a student visa when we married, and so I've dealt with the process first hand.

It seems to me that most people believe that the process of getting a green card or citizenship is just a matter of filling out a couple forms, going to a notary, and waiting a few months for everything to be approved. Nothing could be farther from the truth, and as a result, many people who want to do everything legally, who really try to do so, wind up with an illegal status.

The process involves scores of forms that must be filled out just so. I can tell you from personal experience that figuring out exactly what the INS wanted was a challenge -- for me, an native English speaker who got 680 on the SAT verbal section. It's nearly impossible for non-native speakers, but many of them can't afford a lawyer to help them.

My wife's application was rejected twice. The first was due to confusion about the correct papers to prove marriage. The second was due to improperly collected fingerprints. We went to the State Police to have the fingerprint cards done. Who is better qualified to take good fingerprint samples than the police, right? We were rejected because the NJ State Police are not certified by the INS as fingerprint authorities. It seems that, to get the prints done legally, we had to drive to the duly certified fingerprint authority, some 40 miles away, which turned out to be a camera shop. Her prints were taken by some Indian guy, obviously an immigrant himself, rather than a police officer -- and these were accepted.

On one occasion the wife was at the INS office in NYC Federal Plaza. The woman at the counter was telling wife that something had to be done just so, no exceptions. Wife asked to speak to a manager to try to clear up the misunderstanding -- a perfectly legitimate request in any business. Rather than trying to work with my wife to resolve the disagreement, the worker pushed a little button, and two big burly guys came out of a door and physically removed my wife from the premises, claiming that she was a threat.

Obviously this process is not about a correct and complete application: they are about perpetuating the INS itself, through the fees for fingerprint certifications; shoring up their little fiefdoms, and so on. Anyone who believes that people who are unsuccessful in navigating this bureaucracy are criminals, bad elements that we don't want in our society, is badly mistaken.

[geezer]

Unjust to ordinary Americans as well as the immigrants, while favoring businesses. If there was a legal avenue to bring in enough individuals for farm work and other manual labor, there would be far fewer illegals living in the shadows and wages would be higher.

[davepage]

So, here we have a philosophical issue: tribe or meritocracy. Considering the historically horrible results with tribalism, meritocracy is best. Which means, open the borders. If some lazy spoiled Americans lose their jobs to better skilled immigrants, all the better. That's what this country is about.

[lupatus]

The USA has an orderly and, from what I understand from my immigrant friends and coworkers, not too difficult immigration process already. The meritocracy is here already. The article's author decided to cheat the system and be a criminal.

[pmb]

"Not too difficult". Hah. http://immigrationroad.com/green-card/immigration-flowchart-...

The shortest route is 10 years.

[pfedor]

It's not true. I got an employment-based green card a little over a year after I set foot in the country.

What is true is that the system is rigged against Indians and Chinese. If you are Indian and don't have a PhD, then yes, you may have to wait 10 years, probably longer in fact. Unlike the hardships of illegal immigrants, this hardly ever gets any attention though.

[icarus_drowning]

I'm an American who has contacts with a group of people who are illegal aliens. We have been trying to go the correct route for years. Trust me when I say it is a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

The entire reason we have a problem is because there isn't a good way to "do things legally".

[chaostheory]

I had to wait over 8 years to get my citizenship and wade through tons of bureaucracy and paperwork. In my experience it was anything but easy. It took a letter to the governor of my state, asking for help so that I can vote for him; to get things moving. Suddenly everything magically fell into place within two weeks of writing that letter.

It's probably only 'easy' for Canadians.

[rplacd]

In all seriousness, though, would you recommend anyone else do that after being able to prove you've "done your time" in the system?

[chaostheory]

Recommend writing a letter to your governor or local politician? Yes.

Dismantle the bureaucracy that makes immigration so difficult? Yes. I believe in free markets.

[rubashov]

> horrible results with tribalism, meritocracy is best.

May I attempt to translate?: Throw my weaker countrymen under the bus. I have no human loyalties to those born in my nation who share my culture. Their welfare is of no consequence compared to potentially profitable foreigners.

I think your "tribalism vs meritocracy" line does get to the heart of the matter. Except I would substitute the term "nationalism" for tribalism. And the story of the 19th and 20th century is the absolute failure of systems of government not oriented around nationalism, and tribe. All over the world empires and larger nations repeatedly broke up into their tribal elements. This is inevitable human nature and fighting it is just stupid. This project of inviting the entire world into the borders of the USA will end in civil war eventually. Enoch Powell was right. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Riv...

[jarek]

It might also be worthwhile to mention that the 20th century has seen a nice collection of wars and atrocities done by nation states upon other nations.

[nl]

He had a real social security number. It had work restrictions, so he usually used a photocopy with the restrictions hidden.

[reddweb]

yes he got social security card from SS office but the grounds for it are not valid - making the SS card invalid (when somebody catches him for illegal entry to US).

The secret service is supposed to be able to pull up entire background check - not simply make sure if SSN checkouts against Vargas name.